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Dutch

Are the 49ers the new Eagles of this decade?

  

29 members have voted

  1. 1. Will the 49ers win a Superbowl in the next 2 years?

    • Yes
    • No - Eagles 2.0
    • They have the talent but I'm not sure.


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I'm talking about your statement in general. History doesn't = identity because players can change their identity by either becoming a better player or getting worse.

Except this doesn't actually ever happen. And when it does its more to do with being put in a position where your flaws are masked.

 

When you've been in the league 7+ years and you have a long record of doing something, it doesn't just change.

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I think it's safe to say that we can all agree here that the problem QB play?

 

 

If we're having to discuss who would do what in hypothetical situations...then that's an indicator that something is not right currently...because you shouldn't have to bring up past QB's to make current QB's look good. Not saying that's what is happening here.

 

I'm just saying the 49ers would be wise to invest in a QB that will play efficiently. Not a gunslinger, Not an Andy Dalton...but someone who can get the job done in an effective, timely, low risk manner.

Kaepernick is still young though, and is still learning the position. Is it really fair to say that the Kaepernick we saw last year is the one we'll see this year?

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Given that Smith played 2 and half and Kaep has only played 1 and a half, stats are adjusted to fit on a 1.5-2.5 basis for equal comparison.

 

Passing

 

734 of 1171 passes completed. 53 touchdowns to 17 interceptions. 8,194 yards. 62.68% for Smith

632 of 1057 passes completed. 51 touchdowns to 18 interceptions. 8,376 yards. 59.79% for Kaepernick.

 

255 rush attempts for 1558 yards, 15 touchdowns, and 16 fumbles for Kaep when on the run.

162 rush attempts for 742 yards, 3 touchdowns, and 6 fumbles for Smith on the run.

 

It's almost no question the Kaep beats out Smith in the running category, but it's proven that Smith can hold his own. When it comes to the passing, Kaep has more boom or bust than Smith. While he has more yards, he has an INT more and 2 TDs less. I wouldn't highlight this as a fact of Smith being better. That's very close statistics and I can't argue for one or the other using yards/td-int.

 

However, the completion percentage comes to mind when you compare the two in terms of passing. Kaep often takes off running when he has an open guy, or throws a bad pass when he should run. Smith is much more precise. Smith is a well-oiled machine that always gives you just enough. Kaep is a hit or miss home run threat. "Oh well Kaep can make plays with his feet and keeps his team in the game, like he did last year in Seattle in the CFG."

 

Yes, Kaep can make shit happen. Smith can too, but to a lesser extent. You know what Smith doesn't do though? Throw the game-sealing interception, or fuck up a drive that matters. He may take 20 plays to get to the endzone, and may be less favored against a stout defense, but he won't slit his own throat in a big game.

 

Smith is a poor man's Aaron Rodgers. Kaep is Mike Vick with better arms and worse legs.

 

Would use passer rating as a way of proving Smith > Kaep but no passer rating site is working for me.

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Kaepernick is hit or miss, and that will be their downfall. Alex Smith was the key behind getting to AND winning a super bowl.

I am tired of people saying this on here. Do a lot of you actually believe this?

 

Kaep is overrated by the general public at large, but if Alex Smith is behind center against the Seahawks, the Niners are stomped into oblivion. This is of course putting aside the fact that they dont get past Green Bay.

 

The only reason they were in the game was because of Kaep's legs, and while Smith is more mobile than people realize, he does not have Kaep's speed.

Smith can run AND throw. Kaep has trouble with the throwing part. Smith can be clutch and make plays too. See: Saints vs. 49ers in divisional. He was a muffed punt away from a SB.

 

 

Smith can throw? Oh ya you mean less than 20 yards and into the dirt. Dude will and always will be a game manager will never be the guy who can put the team on his back and win and never was.

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Given that Smith played 2 and half and Kaep has only played 1 and a half, stats are adjusted to fit on a 1.5-2.5 basis for equal comparison.

 

Passing

 

734 of 1171 passes completed. 53 touchdowns to 17 interceptions. 8,194 yards. 62.68% for Smith

632 of 1057 passes completed. 51 touchdowns to 18 interceptions. 8,376 yards. 59.79% for Kaepernick.

 

255 rush attempts for 1558 yards, 15 touchdowns, and 16 fumbles for Kaep when on the run.

162 rush attempts for 742 yards, 3 touchdowns, and 6 fumbles for Smith on the run.

 

It's almost no question the Kaep beats out Smith in the running category, but it's proven that Smith can hold his own. When it comes to the passing, Kaep has more boom or bust than Smith. While he has more yards, he has an INT more and 2 TDs less. I wouldn't highlight this as a fact of Smith being better. That's very close statistics and I can't argue for one or the other using yards/td-int.

 

However, the completion percentage comes to mind when you compare the two in terms of passing. Kaep often takes off running when he has an open guy, or throws a bad pass when he should run. Smith is much more precise. Smith is a well-oiled machine that always gives you just enough. Kaep is a hit or miss home run threat. "Oh well Kaep can make plays with his feet and keeps his team in the game, like he did last year in Seattle in the CFG."

 

Yes, Kaep can make shit happen. Smith can too, but to a lesser extent. You know what Smith doesn't do though? Throw the game-sealing interception, or fuck up a drive that matters. He may take 20 plays to get to the endzone, and may be less favored against a stout defense, but he won't slit his own throat in a big game.

 

Smith is a poor man's Aaron Rodgers. Kaep is Mike Vick with better arms and worse legs.

 

Would use passer rating as a way of proving Smith > Kaep but no passer rating site is working for me.

 

Do your stat adjustment account for the fact that Smith has been in the league for almost 10 years and Kaep 2 years ago was viewed as a long term project?

 

Or how about how Kaepernick completed a bigger percentage of third down pass attempts?

 

Or how about how much more inconsistent Alex Smith was then Kaep was last year his whole career outside of his (clearly an outlier) 2012 season (where he was benched)?

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Given that Smith played 2 and half and Kaep has only played 1 and a half, stats are adjusted to fit on a 1.5-2.5 basis for equal comparison.

 

Passing

 

734 of 1171 passes completed. 53 touchdowns to 17 interceptions. 8,194 yards. 62.68% for Smith

632 of 1057 passes completed. 51 touchdowns to 18 interceptions. 8,376 yards. 59.79% for Kaepernick.

 

255 rush attempts for 1558 yards, 15 touchdowns, and 16 fumbles for Kaep when on the run.

162 rush attempts for 742 yards, 3 touchdowns, and 6 fumbles for Smith on the run.

 

It's almost no question the Kaep beats out Smith in the running category, but it's proven that Smith can hold his own. When it comes to the passing, Kaep has more boom or bust than Smith. While he has more yards, he has an INT more and 2 TDs less. I wouldn't highlight this as a fact of Smith being better. That's very close statistics and I can't argue for one or the other using yards/td-int.

 

However, the completion percentage comes to mind when you compare the two in terms of passing. Kaep often takes off running when he has an open guy, or throws a bad pass when he should run. Smith is much more precise. Smith is a well-oiled machine that always gives you just enough. Kaep is a hit or miss home run threat. "Oh well Kaep can make plays with his feet and keeps his team in the game, like he did last year in Seattle in the CFG."

 

Yes, Kaep can make shit happen. Smith can too, but to a lesser extent. You know what Smith doesn't do though? Throw the game-sealing interception, or fuck up a drive that matters. He may take 20 plays to get to the endzone, and may be less favored against a stout defense, but he won't slit his own throat in a big game.

 

Smith is a poor man's Aaron Rodgers. Kaep is Mike Vick with better arms and worse legs.

 

Would use passer rating as a way of proving Smith > Kaep but no passer rating site is working for me.

He is not a poor mans A rodgers. Everybody is acting Alex Smith has always been decent. Dude fucking blows. The only time he had 20 TDS or over was when Harbs came and pretty much made the offense around him and his needs running the power I or the jumbo offense to cover up smith and his short comings. He needs a top ten running game and D to even put up pedestrian type of numbers.

Edited by monstersofthemidway
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I kind of think these 49ers are better than those Eagles were. Almost to a significant level.

 

I personally think they need to bring someone in to compete with Kaep. Someone not named Blaine Gabbert.

 

Then again, if anyone can make something of Blaine Gabbert, it's Jim Harbaugh.

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Given that Smith played 2 and half and Kaep has only played 1 and a half, stats are adjusted to fit on a 1.5-2.5 basis for equal comparison.

 

Passing

 

734 of 1171 passes completed. 53 touchdowns to 17 interceptions. 8,194 yards. 62.68% for Smith

632 of 1057 passes completed. 51 touchdowns to 18 interceptions. 8,376 yards. 59.79% for Kaepernick.

 

255 rush attempts for 1558 yards, 15 touchdowns, and 16 fumbles for Kaep when on the run.

162 rush attempts for 742 yards, 3 touchdowns, and 6 fumbles for Smith on the run.

 

It's almost no question the Kaep beats out Smith in the running category, but it's proven that Smith can hold his own. When it comes to the passing, Kaep has more boom or bust than Smith. While he has more yards, he has an INT more and 2 TDs less. I wouldn't highlight this as a fact of Smith being better. That's very close statistics and I can't argue for one or the other using yards/td-int.

 

However, the completion percentage comes to mind when you compare the two in terms of passing. Kaep often takes off running when he has an open guy, or throws a bad pass when he should run. Smith is much more precise. Smith is a well-oiled machine that always gives you just enough. Kaep is a hit or miss home run threat. "Oh well Kaep can make plays with his feet and keeps his team in the game, like he did last year in Seattle in the CFG."

 

Yes, Kaep can make shit happen. Smith can too, but to a lesser extent. You know what Smith doesn't do though? Throw the game-sealing interception, or fuck up a drive that matters. He may take 20 plays to get to the endzone, and may be less favored against a stout defense, but he won't slit his own throat in a big game.

 

Smith is a poor man's Aaron Rodgers. Kaep is Mike Vick with better arms and worse legs.

 

Would use passer rating as a way of proving Smith > Kaep but no passer rating site is working for me.

Do your stat adjustment account for the fact that Smith has been in the league for almost 10 years and Kaep 2 years ago was viewed as a long term project?

Here we go with history vs. What have you done lately again

 

Not even gonna argue it, that's an opinion fight.

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I really don't know how much of an opinion fight it is. You guys make claims like, Alex Smith wouldn't make mistakes Kaep makes on 3rd downs, etc. When in actuality, their numbers are extremely identical in those situations right now.

Edited by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F

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Hard to say so I went with option 3. They definitely got talent but there are lots of good NFC teams these days. And if certain teams (Packers, Bears, Lions, just to name three) could fix certain issues they'd be contenders as well. So idk. There's reasonably ~10 teams in the NFC that I could see making the playoffs right now.

 

All that might change... but at least pre-draft that's how I see it.

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I think it's safe to say that we can all agree here that the problem QB play?

 

 

If we're having to discuss who would do what in hypothetical situations...then that's an indicator that something is not right currently...because you shouldn't have to bring up past QB's to make current QB's look good. Not saying that's what is happening here.

 

I'm just saying the 49ers would be wise to invest in a QB that will play efficiently. Not a gunslinger, Not an Andy Dalton...but someone who can get the job done in an effective, timely, low risk manner.

Kaepernick is still young though, and is still learning the position. Is it really fair to say that the Kaepernick we saw last year is the one we'll see this year?

 

 

I realize this is old but lol at someone saying 'history is identity' and then saying Kaep is goign to all of a sudden change who he is.

Killing your own argument is certainly one way to go about things.

 

BTW Alex Smith was pretty damn good in the 2nd half of last year after getting Reid's offense under his belt. And he was stellar in their playoff loss.

 

I suppose history proves to us that Alex Smith will always be far superior to Colin Kaepernick.

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Well seeing as CK is still developing and Alex Smith is a finished product, has been, and was inconsistent last year. Its pretty unreasonable to assume the CK we saw last year will be the same we'll see this year.

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I kind of think these 49ers are better than those Eagles were. Almost to a significant level.

 

I personally think they need to bring someone in to compete with Kaep. Someone not named Blaine Gabbert.

 

Then again, if anyone can make something of Blaine Gabbert, it's Jim Harbaugh.

 

I agree. The 49ers are definitely a better team than the Eagles were. I think our 2004 team with T.O and how good our defense was would have a fair shot but the rest of the years I think it would be the 49ers by a landslide. It's going to be interesting to see the 49ers secondary seeing as though both of their starting corners are with the Raiders.

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I personally think this 9ers team would beat the piss out of those Eagles teams :shrug:

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I personally think this 9ers team would beat the piss out of those Eagles teams :shrug:

 

You must not remember our 04 team back when we actually had a very good defense. Top 10 defense in yards, 2nd in points allowed and our offense was pretty good with T.O. Not saying the 49ers couldn't win, just don't think it would be a land slide or anything.

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Yeah homer goggles aside, I don't think you can really compare the two. This 9ers team is slightly better IMO. Not just talent wise, but coaching wise. I'd take Harbaugh over Reid any day. As for the question itself, too much rests on the shoulders of Kaep to be sure. He's one of those players that will make or break a team, as he so elegantly displayed in the NFCCG against the Seahawks. If he's in the zone, he can take the reins of this offense and stomp any defense out there. But on the flipside, he still makes silly decisions that can cost you the game.

 

Not too worried at the moment though. People tend to forget, that this was his first FULL season as a starting QB. I fully expect him to improve next season. I do think he needs some competition at the spot though. Our defense will keep being our defense. It's just our offense that needs to grow and develop the ability to not throw away games.

Edited by RANGA
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Yeah homer goggles aside, I don't think you can really compare the two. This 9ers team is slightly better IMO. Not just talent wise, but coaching wise. I'd take Harbaugh over Reid any day. As for the question itself, too much rests on the shoulders of Kaep to be sure. He's one of those players that will make or break a team, as he so elegantly displayed in the NFCCG against the Seahawks. If he's in the zone, he can take the reins of this offense and stomp any defense out there. But on the flipside, he still makes silly decisions that can cost you the game.

 

Not too worried at the moment though. People tend to forget, that this was his first FULL season as a starting QB. I fully expect him to improve next season. I do think he needs some competition at the spot though. Our defense will keep being our defense. It's just our offense that needs to grow and develop the ability to not throw away games.

 

Do you think the 49ers defense will take a step back with both their starting corners gone?

Edited by Dutch

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Yeah homer goggles aside, I don't think you can really compare the two. This 9ers team is slightly better IMO. Not just talent wise, but coaching wise. I'd take Harbaugh over Reid any day. As for the question itself, too much rests on the shoulders of Kaep to be sure. He's one of those players that will make or break a team, as he so elegantly displayed in the NFCCG against the Seahawks. If he's in the zone, he can take the reins of this offense and stomp any defense out there. But on the flipside, he still makes silly decisions that can cost you the game.

 

Not too worried at the moment though. People tend to forget, that this was his first FULL season as a starting QB. I fully expect him to improve next season. I do think he needs some competition at the spot though. Our defense will keep being our defense. It's just our offense that needs to grow and develop the ability to not throw away games.

 

Do you think the 49ers defense will take a step back with both their starting corners gone?

 

 

I actually think we'll get better. Rogers had a terrible second half of the season. Definitely starting to regress. Plus we got rid of Whitner, who couldn't cover a fullback to save his life. The only one we'll really miss is Brown. He had a good year and his experience could have helped the younger guys.

 

With those three gone, we have a VERY young secondary now. I fully expect us to look the draft to stack up some more talent as well. To be honest, I don't think we have anyone worthy of a starting position at the moment. Brock, Morris and Cox are all very inexperienced. I trust this coaching staff to figure it out though!

 

Reid will be the cornerstone of this secondary, and I couldn't pick a better guy to build around.

Edited by RANGA
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The 49ers add Stevie Johnson to their passing arsenal... My goodness. This team has everything it needs in order to win a championship. They literally have zero excuses not to win it all. Very dangerous and potentially explosive on offense with all of the play makers they have and an elite defense. This team is definitely stacked and has more talent than the 2000 era Eagles. They are probably on the verge of entering that category of one of the best teams to never win it.

 

Granted, the team is still young and definitely still in it's prime. But if they are going to win it, it has to be soon while they are at their best. They just commit long term (even though the contract is year by year basis) to their young talented QB and give him more weapons so the pressure is on. One thing I can say though, I don't believe Jim Harbaugh chokes in big games like Andy Reid did. But at the end of the day, you still have to win. What is preventing this team from winning it all? Coaching? Players? Kaepernick's QB development?

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First off, I'd like to tip my hat to Jim Harbaugh. He may annoy some people with his antics (not me personally) but he's done a heck of a job turning that organization around into a winning franchise. The 49ers are an elite team; arguably the 2nd best team in the NFL. They have been on the cusp of a Superbowl for 3 seasons now. With the type of success they've had, they are expected to win a Superbowl. This is very reminiscent like and turning into the situation of the Eagles last decade having a lot of success* but not winning it all. The Eagles went to 3 NFC Championship games in a row then a Superbowl berth (then another NFCCG 4 years later). The 49ers are closely following that mold being to two NFC Championship appearances and a Superbowl berth (actually getting to the Superbowl earlier). The question is now, when will they actually win it if so at all? What is everyone's thoughts on the 49ers? Will they win a Superbowl in the next 2 years? What do they need to do to get over the hump?

I think Seahawks will have a SB hangover and not make it to the big game next season.

49'ers will be the hungrier team and likely make it to the SB - biggest question will be Kaepernick though - will he rise up out of the funk he was in for most of last season and will he get better at throwing from the pocket?

I am not sure he will be too excited about the contract he signed once he figures out 49'ers tactics. - especially if he turns his game around.

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Kaepernick won't lead them to anything.

Except to back to back NFC Title games, plus a super bowl appearance where they were 1 play away from winning.

 

But other than that, nothing.

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Kaepernick won't lead them to anything.

Except a trip to the NFCCG after beating the failcons and eventually the superbowl that year. Kaep has done more already than matty "ice" has.

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Except a trip to the NFCCG after beating the failcons and eventually the superbowl that year. Kaep has done more already than matty "ice" has.

 

Never said he hadn't. Kaepernick is all flash and sales. He's Vick 2.0. Still not sold on him as a passer, he's ridiculously inconsistent when he throws the ball. He's got a great TD:INT ratio, but I've always said you aren't going to win long term with a guy who can't complete passes. He completed 58% of his passes last year.

 

Much more, you can't even legitimately argue that he was one of the reasons the 49ers have done well in the playoffs. His 2012 playoffs he played great, but I believe most of that was because that defense was ON, last year his post season stats were abysmal IMO.

45/82 | 54.9% Comp | 576 yards | 3 TD | 3 INT | 74.0 Rating.

People have the belief he played much better than that because of the fact that he ran for 130 yards against the Seahawks and 98 yards against the Packers in the first game.

 

Another thing I've preached for several years now, if you have a defense as dominant as the 49ers do, there's no excuse for the QB to under-perform. Kaepernick can play terrible, the 49ers would still be contenders because that defense will carry them through tough games. Just as the Ravens did during the regular season for Flacco, and the Seahawks have for Wilson at times.

 

 

And as a side note, not sure what the deal is with bashing on Ryan. I've been one of the biggest critics of him because of his ability to blow games when it comes down to him throwing the football... But... He's done his job in the playoffs and elevated his game when called for, it's the defense that killed us in 2012, NOT Matt Ryan. So maybe know what you're talking about before you start calling out other teams

 

Ryans playoffs stats:

2012: 54/77 | 70.1% Comp | 646 yards | 6 TD | 3 INT | 105.2 Rat - also note that he dominated the game you mentioned against the 49ers, when their defense was supposedly "at their best".

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*half the game also it was all Julio. Then you guys were shut out in the 2nd half completely. Zero points against

Edited by Bay
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