Midseason MVP Candidates?

[oochymp 2,393]

But like you said elsewhere, his team is not headed to the playoffs...

Are you saying that should matter for DPOTY or that you think I would factor it in? because I don't think it factors in or should factor in when you're talking about DPOTY and OPOTY, they're different from the MVP, Fart said it, it's most valuable player, it's not a best player of the year award, that's what the OPOTY and DPOTY awards are for

 

I point to 2008 Drew Brees (first 5000 yard passer in 25 years and did so with his top WR hurt for a few games, didn't have a 1000 yard receiver) and 2009 Chris Johnson (his 2000 yard game) both had incredible seasons by most measures, but their teams didn't make the playoffs and they weren't even in the MVP conversation (Peyton Manning won both years) but both won the OPOTY award

Edited December 24, 2014 by oochymp

[Guest Phailadelphia]

So....Romo for MVP? Right?

[SteVo+ 3,702]

So....Romo for MVP? Right?

 

Considering he's not even the MVP of his own team, no.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

Wait what? He's the best player on the team and he's dominated the last month despite the run game being below average (~3.5 ypc). How is he not the MVP of his own team?

[Thanatos 2,847]

Murray is. The last three weeks dont change that.

[Bucman 891]

The Texans can't make the playoffs so there is no hope for Defensive MVP. He deserves it to be certain, but the Browns can't win another football game this year.

Texans can make the playoffs. But its going to take the likes of Connor Shaw, Chase Daniels and Keenum winning to do so.

[RazorStar 4,025]

Mathematically yes, but math doesn't count the Browns out against the Ravens for whatever reason.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

Murray is. The last three weeks dont change that.

 

Murray hasn't been more impressive than Romo this year. No way.

[BwareDWare94 723]

 

Murray hasn't been more impressive than Romo this year. No way.

 

It's amazing the difference an actual, real offensive line makes.

[oochymp 2,393]

I'm gonna throw some stats at you

 

DeMarco Murray this year has run the ball 372 times for 1745 yards, an average of 4.7 ypc, which is great

 

The Cowboys in total have run the ball 481 times for 2180 yards, an average of 4.5 ypc

 

31 of those runs have been by QBs (25 by Romo, 6 by Weeden) for a total of 60 yards

 

throw out those 31 carries (which are mostly broken plays or kneel downs) and hte total is 450 runs for 2120 yards, an average of 4.7 ypc

 

to further clarify things, take out DeMarco Murray's runs and you have a total of 78 carries for 375 yards, an average of 4.8 ypc, which to be fair is in a smaller sample size

 

bottom line, these numbers show that DeMarco Murray is averaging about the same as every other back Dallas has used, which indicates that the largest factor in the Dallas running game has not been DeMarco Murray

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Change-of-pace backs will have higher YPC on fresh legs in, as you stated, a smaller sample size. Murray's averaging the same YPC while carrying the ball 25 times a game, including being the primary short yardage back.

 

Murray carried the ball on 51/59 plays with 1-3 yards to go that were handled by RBs. Dunbar and Randle each had 4.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/play_finder.cgi?request=1&match=summary_all&year_min=2014&year_max=2014&team_id=dal&opp_id=&game_type=R&playoff_round=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&week_num_min=0&week_num_max=99&tr_gtlt=lt&ytg_gtlt=gt&yds_to_go=&yg_gtlt=gt&yards=&is_first_down=-1&fp_gtlt=gt&fp_tm_opp=team&fp_ydline=&type=PASS&type=RUSH&is_turnover=-1&is_scoring=-1&no_play=0&game_day_of_week=&game_result=&order_by=yards&yds_to_go_min=1&yds_to_go_max=3

 

EDIT:

Pro Football Reference's search system seems buggy. That link is only working for me sometimes. Here's the page that lead me to the information:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal/2014_splits.htm

 

You can click on the links to find all of the plays in that category, but it's iffy on whether it'll work or not.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Zack_of_Steel

[oochymp 2,393]

Murray carried the ball on 51/59 plays with 1-3 yards to go that were handled by RBs. Dunbar and Randle each had 4.

fair point on change of pace backs, but I'm not sold on this point

 

looking at these numbers, 53/372 is about 14%, that's the percentage of Murray's carries that came with 1-3 yards to go, 8/78 is about 10%, that's the percentage of carries for running backs other than Murray that came with 1-3 yards to go, that really isn't a huge difference in percentage

 

put another way, Murray handled roughly 86% of Dallas' short yardage carries given to running backs and 81% of the total carries given to running backs, that's really not far off, so I don't think it skews the numbers that much when I'm comparing Murray's efficiency to the other backs running in similar circumstances

 

I'd also like to clarify that I'm not saying Murray sucks and that any back can do what he's done this year, there's obviously a reason Dallas has given him 81% of the team's carries this year, I'm just saying that he's far from the only factor in Dallas' running success this season

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

I really don't think Watt should be in this conversation at all. Until the name of the award is changed to something else not named MVP, it's near impossible to be anything other then a QB, and occasionally a RB.

 

At this point, it's easily Rodger's to lose.

[BradyFan81 404]

That's so boring though. No QB candidate really stands out, use this opportunity to give the award to the best defensive performance we've seen in years.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Aaron Rodgers did stand out. He went through a stretch of over half the season throwing one interception. Watt's "MVP" performance didn't even result in a playoff berth.

[oochymp 2,393]

food for thought: the last MVP to come from a non playoff team was OJ Simpson in 1973, when he had the first 2,000 yard rushing season (and the only one in a fourteen game season)

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

This is coming from someone that would love nothing more than to see Ben get MVP (or Rodgers, if Ben weren't up there), but I feel Watt deserves it. His team would've been shit without him. He was even catching TDs as a TE this year, for fuck's sake. He scored 5 TDs and a Safety, he is the only player in NFL history to record multiple 20+ sack seasons.

 

It's not Watt's fault that his QB situation is shit and that the Browns let the Ravens into the playoffs. It doesn't diminish the impact that he had on his team.

[Packers Dynasty 2010 116]

I am biased here but I really can't see how a defensive player can win the MVP anymore. This is a QB driven league and without a good QB, you are going nowhere. Watt played amazing and was probably the best player in the league this season but this the MVP and sadly he could not lead his team to the playoffs. Rodgers does have help surrounding him but if it wasn't for him, there is no way the Packers are in the playoffs let alone the #2 seed.

[Thanatos 2,847]

I am biased here but I really can't see how a defensive player can win the MVP anymore. This is a QB driven league and without a good QB, you are going nowhere. Watt played amazing and was probably the best player in the league this season but this the MVP and sadly he could not lead his team to the playoffs. Rodgers does have help surrounding him but if it wasn't for him, there is no way the Packers are in the playoffs let alone the #2 seed.

 

Best player in league = Most Valuable Player, in my opinion.

 

If Watt doesn't win this award, it is no longer possible for a defensive player to win it and they should rename it to "Best QB in the NFL award" - BQN for short.

 

Your argument for Rodgers could be made for Ben or Brady or Newton or any other QB of basically any team except ones with incredible defenses.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Thanatos19

[Packers Dynasty 2010 116]

 

Best player in league = Most Valuable Player, in my opinion.

 

If Watt doesn't win this award, it is no longer possible for a defensive player to win it and they should rename it to "Best QB in the NFL award" - BQN for short.

 

Your argument for Rodgers could be made for Ben or Brady or Newton or any other QB of basically any team except ones with incredible defenses.

 

But it's not best player, it's most valuable. And right now, QBs are the most valuable. It's not fair to a defensive player, but if I'm building a team and could have Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Brady, or Watt; I would take one of those QBs all day because those 3 instantly improve my team's chances of winning a lot more than a DE does. If you asked the Texans, I'm sure they would rather have Rodgers than Watt.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Best player and most valuable definitely aren't the same thing, not in my opinion anyway. I wouldn't be mad at all if Watt won it, but let's rename the award at least. Best player awards already exist and they are Offensive and Defensive Player of the Year.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Favre4Ever

[Thanatos 2,847]

The idea that the Pack would go nowhere without Aaron Rodgers is silly. Are they a legit contender? Likely not. Do they make the playoffs? Perhaps not this year when you need 11-5 to make, but they still would have had a shot. They have some great offensive talent on that team.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

We went 2 - 4 - 1 without him last year... Do we have talent, sure. Would we have made the playoffs this year or any other year, probably not (although weirder things have happened). Even just looking at when he left the other day verse the Lions.. Lions go down and score to end the half, then force the Packers to punt right after the half. It wouldn't have been a pretty end had he not returned.

Meanwhile JJ Watt puts together maybe the best season of any defensive player in NFL history and his team was lucky to break .500. Aaron Rodgers did the same thing in 2011 and we won 12 games.

Watt is amazing, and as I said, it doesn't really matter to me who wins the award. But I don't really think it's even questionable who is more valuable.

[BradyFan81 404]

Aaron Rodgers did stand out. He went through a stretch of over half the season throwing one interception. Watt's "MVP" performance didn't even result in a playoff berth.

I disagree. Romo statistically matched Rodgers. Big Ben is also in the discussion. You can make a case for Big Ben or Romo being the best QB this year.

 

With Watt, there is no one even in the same stratosphere as him at his position, or any position on the defensive side of the ball for that matter.

 

It's stunning to me that real football fans can be okay with Watt getting shafted like this. I guess it's not surprising though, with the way the NFL promotes offense at every point now..

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I don't think Romo has much of a case for MVP. Ben can compete for MVP I think, but doesn't have much of a shot at OPOTY, because his 'stats' don't quite add up, IMO. I think you could make Romo's case for OPTY, though. All solidifying that the awards are separate and have different meanings. As they should be.

EDIT: Mixed up the award first time through

Edited December 31, 2014 by Favre4Ever