If the Patriots win the Super Bowl...

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Psh, this entire conversation is worthless. You know why? The GOAT hasn't even been brought up yet.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

He's been in the league for 10+ years. If you didn't think he was the GOAT before the game, makes no sense to all the sudden think he is after the game.

Edited February 2, 2015 by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F

[Cherry 1,302]

He's been in the league for 10+ years. If you didn't think he was the GOAT before the game, makes no sense to all the sudden think he is after the game.

I disagree. The 4th ring sealed his legacy.

[blotsfan 2,112]

You know it's funny. If the patriot drops that interception, it makes Brady a worse QB

[Sarge+ 3,436]

Bredy did nothing but dink and dunk throws outside of his two egregious interceptions. Montana is the undisputed GOAT still, for me.

 

But that's what's open against Seattle. That's why teams that have tried to beat them deep (San Fran, Green Bay, Carolina, Denver etc... ) have consistently lost to their defense. Plus it's not like the Pats actually have what you would call a down field threat other than Gronk. And they had no running game to speak of, so a lot of those throws were just an attempt to get whatever they could.

[BoneKrusher+ 1,276]

Brady has to be ahead of Montana as the GOAT.

What impresses me most about Brady is he does this with average talent around him at the skilled positions too.

[BoneKrusher+ 1,276]

Undisputed goat. Led a 10-point down comeback in 4th.

And he did it vs a top Defense.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

I disagree. The 4th ring sealed his legacy.

 

So by that logic, had the Patriots lost the game on that last drive by the Seahawks... He wouldn't be the GOAT?

 

That makes no sense...

[BoneKrusher+ 1,276]

Brady has to be ahead of Montana as the GOAT.

What impresses me most about Brady is he does this with average talent around him at the skilled positions too.

when i posted this i should have made it clear the talent at Brady's skilled positions were at best average other than Gronk.

[BJORN 679]

 

So by that logic, had the Patriots lost the game on that last drive by the Seahawks... He wouldn't be the GOAT?

 

That makes no sense...

Rings don't make a QB but they certainly boost your resume. When it's soo close between these great QBs it's not hard to see why opinions will change about Brady. Surely an additional ring boosts his legacy?

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

It just sounds arbitrary. Because if the Seahawks score on that last drive, this conversation probably isn't even being bought up (I know, grasping at straws).

 

Plus, it's not like his performance was memorable in any way, shape or form. I just don't see how the outcome of this game makes him the GOAT, if he wasn't before this one game.

[BoneKrusher+ 1,276]

Tom's getting Old.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Brady was along for the ride for his first three rings. Once the team was put on his back, it took them until now to win another. I still had him in the top 4 when I did my list post-2012 (which included Brees and Rodgers).

 

 

 

I don't care how much anyone wants to dismiss their cheating, there's too much evidence against them for me to write it off, especially in a game of inches, where any one play can make or break a game.

 

A while back I compiled all of the evidence and quotes and such. Like I said then, I'm sure not many of you will read any of it, but the evidence is there. If you want the entire story, check out my two posts in the old thread. If not, I'll give bullet points further down:

 

http://www.thegridironpalace.com/forums/index.php?/topic/68531-attn-phil-zack-addresses-spygate/&do=findComment&comment=2508799

 

 

 

Aside from the "fumble proof post-2006" article that Vin/JD posted:

 

-They've had multiple opponents publicly report having their headsets malfunction or go out in the middle of sustained drives in Foxborough, even during the playoffs (Lions, Bengals, Jaguars, Browns).

 

-They've been caught with multiple extra, unapproved/suspicious radio frequencies

 

-Ernie Adams has been with Bill since his days with the Browns. He's a genius that had a huge article written on him by ESPN back in 2008.

 

On game day, Adams wears a headset in the press box, a direct line to Belichick. Adams advises Belichick on which plays to challenge, and charts trends. "The one thing the Patriots do better than anyone else is they adjust and make halftime adjustments," Sturges says. "Ernie Adams is the guy who does that."

 

Are there other game-day duties? While it is commonly accepted that most teams try to steal signals, and New England was actually caught in the well-publicized Spygate incident, one former Patriots insider said a videotape of signals wouldn't help the other 31 teams nearly as much because they wouldn't have Ernie Adams there to quickly analyze and process the information.

-They used a second radio frequency for QB helmets that did not cut off 15 seconds prior to the start of the play (NFL's rule). An extra 15 seconds for genius Ernie Adams to decipher the defense and tell Brady what to do.

 

-Their winning percentage at home has been a statistical anomaly. The following numbers are prior to the 2012 season. From 2012-Present, they've lost only 3 home games:

 

 

 

Including playoff games, the Patriots are 34-7 (.829) at home since Spygate was uncovered after the 2007 season opener and 77-16 (.828) since 2002, numbers that are such huge statistical outliers in the NFL’s salary-cap era of parity that O’Leary says they can’t be attributed just to Belichick’s coaching skills and Brady’s quarterbacking.

 

The next-best team on that list is the Ravens, who are 66-21 (.759) at home — more than a season’s worth of home games behind New England and simply too good to be true to O’Leary and his SMU-based statistician, Dr. Miao Zang.

 

Even fishier to O’Leary and Zang is the Patriots posting five unbeaten regular seasons of 8-0 at home from 2001-11 and winning 31 consecutive home games in one stretch with Brady at quarterback.

 

Zang describes the five unbeaten home records as “an extreme statistical anomaly” compared with the rest of the NFL, where almost half of the league has failed to do that even once since true free agency arrived 20 years ago.

 

“The average NFL team since 2002 wins just 4.5 of its home games, yet the Patriots win seven out of eight every year for 11 years — three standard deviations from the rest of the league,” said O’Leary, noting in particular that New England went 8-0 at home in 2009 but just 2-6 on the road.

 

Even more suspicious, O’Leary writes, is the Patriots’ uncanny success in covering the point spread both home and away the past 11 years. New England is 109-69-6 against the spread since 2001, producing a net of 40 winning bets that Zang writes is once again nearly three standard statistical deviations from the rest of the league — “an extremely rare case.”

 

“The statistical evidence seems to show they’re still using a non-football advantage,” O’Leary said. “I’m not saying they’re cheating, but this isn’t a win-all-your-home-games league.”

 

http://nypost.com/2012/10/21/book-stats-say-patriots-antics-havent-stopped-after-spygate/

 

Edited February 2, 2015 by Zack_of_Steel

[Cherry 1,302]

You know it's funny. If the patriot drops that interception, it makes Brady a worse QB

Not a worse QB. That pick, while it is not in any part due to Brady, made Brady the greatest. 10 years from now we will look back on Brady having 4 rings without looking into how it occurred as much as what the end of the game brings.

 

So by that logic, had the Patriots lost the game on that last drive by the Seahawks... He wouldn't be the GOAT?

 

That makes no sense...

Lots of what-ifs. The problem is that Brady has 4 rings now, and there is no argument against that. What if Tyree didn't make that catch? He'd likely have 5. Again, it's all hypothetical, but when we look back 10 years from now we'll see Brady having 4 rings, not the what-ifs around him being the GOAT.

Plus, it's not like his performance was memorable in any way, shape or form. I just don't see how the outcome of this game makes him the GOAT, if he wasn't before this one game.

 

Down 10 in the 4th quarter. Biggest 4th quarter comeback in SB history against one of the most talented defenses of all time.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Chernobyl426

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

Bredy did nothing but dink and dunk throws outside of his two egregious interceptions. Montana is the undisputed GOAT still, for me.

 

You're using "dink and dunks" against Brady when your GOAT QB is the guy who made the west coast offense famous(well, a big part anyway)?

 

I mean I agree that Montana is the GOAT, and Brady is #2 for me, but using that logic you shouldn't like Montana too much, given short passes was the majority 49ers offense, regardless of the defense they played, and as noted here, the Patriots HAD to dink and dunk, there is no other real option vs the Hawks.

[Piggly Wiggly 960]

Brady was 13/15 with 2 TDs in the 4th quarter. Specifically 8/8 on the final drive. Against the NFL's #1 defense. Without a Jerry Rice.

 

Joe Montana can go suck a fucking cock.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Joe did it without cheating.

[Piggly Wiggly 960]

Joe did it without cheating.

Rocking that tin foil hat pretty hard again, I see.

[Cherry 1,302]

Zack...

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

You pussies won't read the ample evidence against the Patriots, but I'm the one at fault. lol.

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

I don't think anyone doubts the Patriots cheat.

 

The thing is, so does every other team in the NFL. The Patriots tend to be a lot better at it than most teams(which is probably because they have a HOF Coach/QB combo), and also happen to be the ones who get caught(at least, the only one that gets ratted on, given it's more believable with them cause they were the ones who were caught with spygate).

[Piggly Wiggly 960]

You pussies won't read the ample evidence against the Patriots, but I'm the one at fault. lol.

We've been through this like a dozen times before, fuckface. It goes in circles every time. Not really worth the time and effort to get into it again.

 

Let me know something though, how pissed are you that your ''No rings since Spygate'' narrative is ruined now? Lmfao.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

We've been through this like a dozen times before, fuckface. It goes in circles every time. Not really worth the time and effort to get into it again.

 

Let me know something though, how pissed are you that your ''No rings since Spygate'' narrative is ruined now? Lmfao.

You've never read or refuted any of the evidence, so it's more like I drop knowledge and you hide like a bitch behind the same retarded insults. Doubt you even read my Cliff's notes post in this very thread. Pussy.

 

And I've never once said the "no rings since spygate" comment. But nice try.

 

[Thanatos 2,847]

Zack I respect your opinions on most things, but your Spygate stuff is just a conspiracy theory. There's also plenty of evidence that what the Patriots were doing was what everyone else was doing. Hell, the reason Belichek was caught was because he put his guys in construction orange and tossed them in the middle of the stands. He was doing it to make a point to the league, because the Jets were still taping his practices and he was rather angry over it.

 

Your Patriots hate is funny, considering how rational you are most of the time.

 

As for Phil, though, you talked a shit ton of trash all week against the Hawks, then when things were looking grim down 24-14, you completely bailed on your team and gave up on them, saying you guys were gonna get blown it and it was over. Much like you did one season midway through, (and then the Pats reached the AFCCG). No respect there, bud.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Thanatos19

[oochymp 2,393]

-Their winning percentage at home has been a statistical anomaly. The following numbers are prior to the 2012 season. From 2012-Present, they've lost only 3 home games:

their overall winning percentage has been a statistical anomaly, as you pointed out, they were 77-16 (.828) from 2002 through 2012 at home, but they were 135-41 (.767) overall (regular season only) and had 12 or more wins in seven of those eleven seasons, and since teams are typically better at home this really doesn't seem as surprising