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BwareDWare94

lolMaine

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Back on topic--I maintain that if this treatment has helped people, it should remain available. There are all kinds of medical practices that have the potential to do more harm than good. It's part of that field. Obviously, as I've said multiple times already, I do not stand by the parents' right to put their child through such therapy. If it's available, it should only be available to someone who voluntarily agrees to go through it.

 

Two questions (again):

 

1) Why does being gay hurt people and becoming straight help them, assuming society treats gay people "very, very well."

 

2) If parents want to force their children to go to conversion therapy, what means would you have to prevent them from forcing their kid to say it was their decision?

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Two questions (again):

 

1) Why does being gay hurt people and becoming straight help them, assuming society treats gay people "very, very well."

 

2) If parents want to force their children to go to conversion therapy, what means would you have to prevent them from forcing their kid to say it was their decision?

 

This has nothing to do with the hypothetical "want" to go through the therapy. Perhaps it's a young man or woman who has a desire to extend their family name biologically with a partner. You're assuming that someone who would want the therapy would think there was something "wrong" with them. That's not necessarily true. There could be other factors in play.

 

As for question 2), I think one-on-one time with a doctor would probably allow the doctor to figure out if the child actually wants the therapy. Is it full proof? No. Nothing is full proof.

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For the record, I am completely against Conversion Therapy practiced by anybody other than a licensed medical professional. It should absolutely be illegal for religious institutions to practice it. It should certainly be illegal for individuals to practice it through whatever means suits them.

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Seems like most of society treats gay people very, very well. As they should.

Nah, I feel like at young ages gay people are heavily susceptible to bullying. And unsupportive parents are not uncommon.

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Oh that's a boring one. Well, here's the actual definition of homophobia. No one says it's a mental disorder or anything. That's some lame semantics. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homophobia

 

You don't seem to grasp that there's no definition for a made up word. It's pointless fabricated jibberish. Again, you couldn't think for yourself.you needed to refer to what you think is authority, to tell you if it exists. That's not an actual definition.thats the fabricated definition for a fabricated word.

It doesn't matter because people still use the term as though it's an actual mental condition.

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You don't seem to grasp that there's no definition for a made up word. It's pointless fabricated jibberish. Again, you couldn't think for yourself.you needed to refer to what you think is authority, to tell you if it exists. That's not an actual definition.thats the fabricated definition for a fabricated word.

It doesn't matter because people still use the term as though it's an actual mental condition.

Lolz

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It's hurt some people, helped others. If it helped no one, ban it.

 

But that's not the case. Trying to ban it is purely political. 100% virtue signaling

 

This is a dumb argument. So if it hurts 90% of the people that go through it and helps 10% of the people that go through it, we should keep it around? I'm sure electro shock therapy has a few people that says it helped them, should we bring that back too?

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It should be brought back as an option, yes.

 

Everything should be an option to the patient. Not the doctor, the patient

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It should be brought back as an option, yes.

Everything should be an option to the patient. Not the doctor, the patient

I'm glad you're finally ok with trans teenagers taking puberty blockers.

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That's an interesting point. If we allow puberty blockers this has to be allowed to right ? Or ban both? It seems like they are in the same vein.

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Puberty blockers are no bueno. Messes with brain chemistry A LOT. I know it works for a lot of people and it's great but it messes some users up and there's a number of them who use them and later on regret it.

Re: The brain isn't fully developed until 26.

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You don't seem to grasp that there's no definition for a made up word. It's pointless fabricated jibberish. Again, you couldn't think for yourself.you needed to refer to what you think is authority, to tell you if it exists. That's not an actual definition.thats the fabricated definition for a fabricated word.

It doesn't matter because people still use the term as though it's an actual mental condition.

What are you saying? You've just posted pure gibberish comprised of made up words with no intrinsic meaning.

 

Fuck, now I'm doing it too.

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It should be brought back as an option, yes.

 

Everything should be an option to the patient. Not the doctor, the patient

 

I vehemently disagree. Patients are dumb. They don't know what they need, they know what the advertising companies on TV tell them they need. We should not be advertising medicine, that should be a trained doctor's decision to make, not a patient who does two hours of research on the internet.

 

Let me put it to you like this, Bware.

 

Should the FDA allow drugs into this country that have a 90% fatality rate just because it cures a disease in 10% of people? We're past this. We shouldn't be doing things that we know are bad for most people who take them.

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I'm glad you're finally ok with trans teenagers taking puberty blockers.

It doesn't affect me. Why do I care? I think that, just like these other practices, it hurts more than it helps, and it hasn't curbed the rates of mental illness among trans people (probably because thinking one is different than one's biology is the first sign that something beyond their control is wrong).

 

When it comes to trans people, maybe we ought to continue to try to treat their conditions as opposed to attempting to facilitate their illusions? Years from now we'll be seen as well-intentioned at heart but cowardly overall for placing feelings over adequate treatment.

 

We stupidly derail progress in so many ways by caring too much about "feelings." In so many areas. Feelings do not matter that much, if at all. An emotional reaction is not a balanced reaction.

 

That's a different discussion for a different day. Nice false equivalence. Not that it isn't par for the course.

Edited by BwareDWare94

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It doesn't affect me. Why do I care? I think that, just like these other practices, it hurts more than it helps, and it hasn't curbed the rates of mental illness among trans people (probably because thinking one is different than one's biology is the first sign that something beyond their control is wrong).

 

When it comes to trans people, maybe we ought to continue to try to treat their conditions as opposed to attempting facilitate their illusions? Years from now we'll be seen as well-intentioned at heart but cowardly overall for placing feelings over adequate treatment.

 

We stupidly derail progress in so many ways by caring too much about "feelings." In so many areas. Feelings do not matter that much, if at all. An emotional reaction is not a balanced reaction.

 

That's a different discussion for a different day. Nice false equivalence. Not that it isn't par for the course.

I mean, basically every single psychology organization says that both conversion therapy is wrong and that transitioning is real so I don't see how I'm the one just going along with feelings when you're the one denying scientific research.

 

And you're 100% right it's a false equivalence. Just not in the way you think. I trusted your bigotry to take you home and you didn't let me down.

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It's not bigotry to question things that don't make sense. And as long as 40% of these people take their own lives, we haven't found the solution.

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It's not bigotry to question things that don't make sense. And as long as 40% of these people take their own lives, we haven't found the solution.

But I thought that if it helps some people, it doesn't matter how many people it hurts. Isn't that why you support conversion therapy?

Edited by blotsfan

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Emotions are how we navigate our environment. They're not the only bit of information we should go off of, but properly developed emotions are crucial for successful and lasting social interactions and self-satisfaction. To say they mean nothing or little is wrong; they're an inherent, important part of our biology.

 

Now I agree they shouldn't be the only factor to rely on, and a lot of people stray in the wrong direction in this regard. This is just going to cycle back to the lack of emotional development a lot of people face. So many think it's a trivial issue but it's not. People wonder why millennials are "narcissistic" (still unbelievably hypocritical to say this if it comes from the parent of a millennial), and it's because many parents at best don't spend time teaching kids these skills and at worst they are directly causing maladaptive behaviors.

 

I feel like we revert back to square one of the transgenderism being a mental illness argument every time this discussion comes up. It's like we make progress and then it resets.

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But I thought that if it helps some people, it doesn't matter how many people it hurts. Isn't that why you support conversion therapy?

Oh excuse me, I wasn't aware that saying a therapy should be available to those who wish to seek it individually is supporting said therapy. Gosh darn it, I sure wish I could counter the argument of taking one stance and proclaiming it as another, much worse stance.

Emotions are how we navigate our environment. They're not the only bit of information we should go off of, but properly developed emotions are crucial for successful and lasting social interactions and self-satisfaction. To say they mean nothing or little is wrong; they're an inherent, important part of our biology.

 

Now I agree they shouldn't be the only factor to rely on, and a lot of people stray in the wrong direction in this regard. This is just going to cycle back to the lack of emotional development a lot of people face. So many think it's a trivial issue but it's not. People wonder why millennials are "narcissistic" (still unbelievably hypocritical to say this if it comes from the parent of a millennial), and it's because many parents at best don't spend time teaching kids these skills and at worst they are directly causing maladaptive behaviors.

 

I feel like we revert back to square one of the transgenderism being a mental illness argument every time this discussion comes up. It's like we make progress and then it resets.

It's a condition that has a 40% suicide rate!

Emotions are how we navigate our environment. They're not the only bit of information we should go off of, but properly developed emotions are crucial for successful and lasting social interactions and self-satisfaction. To say they mean nothing or little is wrong; they're an inherent, important part of our biology.

 

Now I agree they shouldn't be the only factor to rely on, and a lot of people stray in the wrong direction in this regard. This is just going to cycle back to the lack of emotional development a lot of people face. So many think it's a trivial issue but it's not. People wonder why millennials are "narcissistic" (still unbelievably hypocritical to say this if it comes from the parent of a millennial), and it's because many parents at best don't spend time teaching kids these skills and at worst they are directly causing maladaptive behaviors.

 

I feel like we revert back to square one of the transgenderism being a mental illness argument every time this discussion comes up. It's like we make progress and then it resets.

It's a condition that has a 40% suicide rate!

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You are pointing at a single data point and a single factor that goes into suicide and extrapolating a pretty extreme conclusion. You don't even consider the effects of social stigma and the way that growing up in a hostile household could affect these things.

 

Your logic is tantamount to people looking at the 23% pay difference between men and women and assuming it's only because of gender.

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There's pretty much no pay gap when you factor in hours worked.

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"When you remove all the factors that go into the pay gap, there is no pay gap."

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Most people dont even understand the pay gap or what it is. They like to think that a woman sitting right next to a man doing the same job is only getting .80 cents to his dollar thats not what the pay gap is.

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Whole threads worth of posts.

I have a question for you man. Not trying to be funny, or be a dick, but why do you care so much? Now I'm not saying they're not issues within the transgender community that aren't worth discussing, we're having an open dialogue about. This just seems to be an issue, that strikes a chord with you. I'm not making any accusations, and I'm not trying to be funny, or have any implicit subtext here, I'm just trying to figure out why this kind of thing bugs you.

 

For the record, I agree with you on this more than I don't, I just find it interesting how much this bothers you.

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