Players Top 100 List

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

No, Jason Jones lined up as a DT for the Titans. But I just don't think a guy who only has a year of work to show for what he's done can be listed at almost 50.

 

Jason Jones 4 Sacks, 2 Hits, 34 Pressures

Ndamukong Suh 10 Sacks 6 Hits, 24 Pressures

 

Let's not forget that Babin was a retread, a castoff from three different teams before suddenly having a good year playing next to Jason Jones and Tony Brown. Vanden Bosch and Corey Williams both have long track records as proven studs in this league, and Cliff Avril definitely showed signs of being a good player. Not so much on the Titans, just a bunch of young guys with a bit of potential. Saying he's the 8th or 9th best interior Defensive linemen or so, and there are 9 sort of groupings for players (QB, RB, WR, TE/OL, Edge Rushers, Interior DL, Tackle Linebacker, Corners and Safeties), really should put him somewhere from low 60's to high 80's. He's good and he's bound to get better, but he's not the 51st best player in the league yet.

 

I'd rather have the guy who last year had more sacks, and more QB hits, then I would rather have the guy who had more 'pressures'.

 

And we can all make arguments about supporting casts, Lo-Jack and McBride were never known for their rushing ability and when they came in to replace Avril and KVB when they were out with injuries their was no dip in production.

 

And I agree with you completely on the bolded, I don't believe that if your doing a list based on the best players in the NFL based on their overall body of work, Suh wouldn't be as high as he was. But If were doing a list of the best players based on last year, which was supposed to be the criteria for this particular ranking, Suh does deserve to be as high as he was on this list.

[Titanswin472 29]

Jason Jones gets just as much pressure as Suh does and he did it with a worse defensive line around him.

 

But Jason Jones was in a better scheme to succeed. Jeff Fisher or Chuck Cecil's defensive scheme was set up so that the lineman can get to the QB but while leaving the Linebackers and D-backs exposed. Thats why many lineman could come to Tennessee and after having almost no success elsewhere have lots of success here.

 

I don't believe any Titans D-lineman should be on this list. Also Razorstar there is absolutely no way that you can say Jason Jones is better than Suh. NO WAY

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

What you said made no sense at all, Titanswin. Fisher's system has always been to just rush 4..how does that leave LBs and DBs exposed? Only once Cecil came in did we start blitzing, and that still was rather rare.

 

Jason Jones got amazing amounts of pressure when just rushing with 4 linemen. The reason for Babin, Vanden Bosch and etcs success was Jim Washburn's teachings. It's really that simple. He was an absolute mastermind when it came to working with d-linemen, DEs in paticular. I'm not calling Jones better than Suh, because I didn't watch Suh enough to know. However, saying Jones benefits from the system is a complete and total reversal from the truth. The system works against d-lineman. They get no help from anyone else on the D in terms of rushing.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

What you said made no sense at all, Titanswin. Fisher's system has always been to just rush 4..how does that leave LBs and DBs exposed? Only once Cecil came in did we start blitzing, and that still was rather rare.

 

Jason Jones got amazing amounts of pressure when just rushing with 4 linemen. The reason for Babin, Vanden Bosch and etcs success was Jim Washburn's teachings. It's really that simple. He was an absolute mastermind when it came to working with d-linemen, DEs in paticular. I'm not calling Jones better than Suh, because I didn't watch Suh enough to know. However, saying Jones benefits from the system is a complete and total reversal from the truth. The system works against d-lineman. They get no help from anyone else on the D in terms of rushing.

 

Actually, Chuck for the most part of last year ran the same defense, or at least tried to run the same kind of defense that Shwartz ran, and that Washburn coached his linemen. At least that's what I've seen from the 5 NFL replay games that have been on TV. Which was the idea of getting pressure with your front 4 by encouraging rushing on every down with the intention to get to the QB, and if the RB so happens to be in the way, then get him too. Which is one of the reason why Babin, who's more explosive off the ball was able to succeed at the wide 9 spot, kind of like how Cliff Avril was also able to succeed in this same defense this past season. So if you have the right players for the scheme, Jones, Babin, Ford, it's supposed to allow linemen to get more pressures and sacks.

 

If anything, Titanswin is right when he says Jones was in a better scheme to succeed because Suh played and prospered as Cornhusker in a scheme where he was told to do the complete opposite of what he's asked to do in the scheme we run now. He mentioned during the pre-season games about how he's had to adjust to a complete different role in our defense from the one at Nebraska. Which is the reason why Mayock used to say he believed McCoy would be a better pick for the Lions, because he was supposed to be the better penetrater.

 

Jimmy Johnson when he coached at the U made it popular, and he took it with him to Dallas and Miami. It's not as popular anymore because it becomes vastly ineffective for your whole defense if you don't have one or two guys who draw most of the attention in pass pro, which is the reason why it was so succesful when the Titans had the Freak (back in the day), and Haynesworth. And in Detroit, Suh and Corey Williams.

Edited May 31, 2011 by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F

[Titanswin472 29]

What you said made no sense at all, Titanswin. Fisher's system has always been to just rush 4..how does that leave LBs and DBs exposed? Only once Cecil came in did we start blitzing, and that still was rather rare.

Read this: From December when Fisher was still coach.

Yes, I know that Jason Babin was named to the Pro Bowl. I also know that Babin—and Dave Ball—benefit from a scheme that gets them sacks at the expense of other areas of the defense, and that there isn't a single other team in the NFL where Babin and Ball would combine for 19.5 sacks. If there were, the Titans wouldn't have picked either of them up for the minimum salary.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/556402-jeff-fisher-the-problem-isnt-his-coaching-seriously

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

Actually, Chuck for the most part of last year ran the same defense, or at least tried to run the same kind of defense that Shwartz ran, and that Washburn coached his linemen. At least that's what I've seen from the 5 NFL replay games that have been on TV. Which was the idea of getting pressure with your front 4 by encouraging rushing on every down with the intention to get to the QB, and if the RB so happens to be in the way, then get him too. Which is one of the reason why Babin, who's more explosive off the ball was able to succeed at the wide 9 spot, kind of like how Cliff Avril was also able to succeed in this same defense this past season. So if you have the right players for the scheme, Jones, Babin, Ford, it's supposed to allow linemen to get more pressures and sacks.

 

If anything, Titanswin is right when he says Jones was in a better scheme to succeed because Suh played and prospered as Cornhusker in a scheme where he was told to do the complete opposite of what he's asked to do in the scheme we run now. He mentioned during the pre-season games about how he's had to adjust to a complete different role in our defense from the one at Nebraska. Which is the reason why Mayock used to say he believed McCoy would be a better pick for the Lions, because he was supposed to be the better penetrater.

 

Jimmy Johnson when he coached at the U made it popular, and he took it with him to Dallas and Miami. It's not as popular anymore because it becomes vastly ineffective for your whole defense if you don't have one or two guys who draw most of the attention in pass pro, which is the reason why it was so succesful when the Titans had the Freak (back in the day), and Haynesworth. And in Detroit, Suh and Corey Williams.

 

I was never commenting on Suh's scheme, so ok..

 

However, Jason Jones played DT(completely undersized for the position) and received no help from blitzing or anything of the such. While his system may be better for him than Suh's is for him, I still highly disagree that it benefits defensive lineman..it's why Washburn became so coveted and respected in this league..he was able to coach up his lineman to be good enough by themselves. There was no one on the Titans d-line this past season that drew double teams...outside of Jason Jones. It was a rarity for Babin to get doubled. When Jones got hurt, if you'll notice, the Titans d-line went downhill...quickly. Went from being one of the league leaders in sacks to below average. Jones' talents carried the Titans d-line for the first few weeks of the season.

 

Read this: From December when Fisher was still coach.

 

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/556402-jeff-fisher-the-problem-isnt-his-coaching-seriously

 

 

LOL bleacher report. The only reason it was at expense of the rest of the defense is because Witherspoon and McGrath failed in coverage(they both tried to take over for Bulluck, in terms of cover LB roll). If they had a Bulluck-esque LB, one who specializes in coverage, they would have been fine. The tight end burned us all year. What a coincidence, the tight end is who Bulluck used to cover.

 

Not to mention, Chris Hope sucked dick.

[Guest MikeyDay]

As a Titan fan, ill say this, Jason Jones is a beast. Hes underrated as shit and is one of the better Dt's in the league. He gets injured alot which is to me his only downfall. We drafted this guy as a DE coming out of college, which he was rated the #1 run stopping DE coming out of college. But i still would take take Suh over him, Suh dominated last year. 10 sacks as a rookie is pretty damn good. Im not saying Suh should be as high as he was listed but he deserves to be on the list in the 70s. As for Babin, i laughed, he did have a good year but he was a run around scrub before he got here, just like KVB, though KVB had injury problems, and both flurished here, can u say Jim Washburn? Babin wouldnt have the same year if he resigns and Tennesse knows that which is why theres been nothing between em yet. Titans btw i didnt get wut u said about our backfield being exposed either?

[Titanswin472 29]

Titans btw i didnt get wut u said about our backfield being exposed either?

I don't get how exactly it would be exposed but I was just going off of that article.

[Barracuda 629]

Sorry for not editing in awhile, so BUMP. I think we're all more anxiously awaiting our very own TGP member Razor's top 100 list more than this shit anyways.

 

HOWEVER, Ben Roethlisberger and Joe Thomas should be higher in my opinion. I hate Roethlisberger with all my heart but damn he's good. He should easily be top 20 maybe even top 10. I'd be happy if Thomas was a bit higher. Late 20's mid 30's is deserved.

 

BUMPETY BUMP BUMP

 

These fans voting on NFL.com are beyond rediculous. Joe Thomas at 95? Nick Mangold 93? Jared Allen 36? Matt Ryan 28?

Edited June 12, 2011 by Barracuda

[AllYouNeedIsLovie 377]

Devin Hester at #32?! Are you fucking kidding me?

 

Vilma is not a top 40 player in the NFL either.

[RazorStar 4,025]

Suggs 40, Logan Mankins 39, Steven Jackson 38, Jason Witten 36 , Vilma 37, Wilfork 35, Jamaal Charles 33, Devin Hester 32 (NFL's list)

[WindyCitySports 407]

Just another example of Lance Briggs being underrated. Urlacher is way ahead of him on this list. What a shame...

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

How overrated is Devin Hester? Holy Cow.

[badgers 380]

How overrated is Devin Hester? Holy Cow.

 

I laughed out loud when I saw this.

 

I knew they'd overrate him, but it was still funny.

 

Hester isn't a threat on offense. He got on this list purely for special teams skills, which makes me wonder how Vinatieri or Shane Lechler didn't make it, because I am almost certain I'd take Vinatieri over Hester any day.

Edited June 13, 2011 by gobadgers77

[WindyCitySports 407]

How overrated is Devin Hester? Holy Cow.

I totally agree. What the hell is he doing so high?

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Well... No list is perfect.... lol...

[Turry 755]

I love Devin but cmon man.

[AllYouNeedIsLovie 377]

DeSean Jackson at #29? Really? According to the players, DeSean Jackson is better than Reggie Wayne. roflthemfail

[Packers Dynasty 2010 116]

I truly want to know if it was only NFL players or if some outside source screwed up these lists. I cannot believe NFL players would overrate other players soo much.

Edited June 20, 2011 by Packers Dynasty 2010

[westbrookforsix 28]

DeSean Jackson at #29? Really? According to the players, DeSean Jackson is better than Reggie Wayne. roflthemfail

I'm probably repeating whatever the presenter said about him... I didn't see this week's show yet.

 

DeSean is really high... I didn't expect to see him here... probably in the 40-60 range, but he does add a dimension that Wayne does not on punt returns. He also forces defenses to account for him not only with double coverage, but deeeeeep double coverage. Sometimes the safeties are as deep as 20 yards at the snap. LeSean McCoy averaged 5.2 yards per carry... not only because he had a great season, but because the safeties were out of the equation until he reached 7 or 8 yards. Just because DJ only averages about 3 catches a game, it doesn't mean he only helps out the Eagles on 3 plays per game.

 

I'm also not surprised at all that he gets more respect from fellow players than from fans. They know what his speed can do and what he does to defenses on every single down, even when he doesn't make the catch. It reminds me of how players used to always say the QB they were afraid of the most was the Falcon version of Mike Vick, when probably 75% of fans wouldn't put Vick in their list of top 10 QB's. Fans look at stats too much sometimes.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I'm probably repeating whatever the presenter said about him... I didn't see this week's show yet.

 

DeSean is really high... I didn't expect to see him here... probably in the 40-60 range, but he does add a dimension that Wayne does not on punt returns. He also forces defenses to account for him not only with double coverage, but deeeeeep double coverage. Sometimes the safeties are as deep as 20 yards at the snap. LeSean McCoy averaged 5.2 yards per carry... not only because he had a great season, but because the safeties were out of the equation until he reached 7 or 8 yards. Just because DJ only averages about 3 catches a game, it doesn't mean he only helps out the Eagles on 3 plays per game.

 

I'm also not surprised at all that he gets more respect from fellow players than from fans. They know what his speed can do and what he does to defenses on every single down, even when he doesn't make the catch. It reminds me of how players used to always say the QB they were afraid of the most was the Falcon version of Mike Vick, when probably 75% of fans wouldn't put Vick in their list of top 10 QB's. Fans look at stats too much sometimes.

 

Jackson's punt return ability does not place him over Reggie Wayne. lol

 

What the players DID NOT give Jackson credit for his is uncanny ability to disappear. If the deep ball is taken away, Desean is completely removed from the offensive side of the ball.

 

If he can't run away from the defender, he stops trying and stops giving any effort. And being that he is too afraid to run any other route.... He becomes a non-factor.

[RazorStar 4,025]

What they also failed to mention is that he dropped nearly 20% of the balls thrown his way last year. You can't be a top 100 player if you drop more passes than anyone in the league.

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

Andre Johnson, Roddy White, Megatron, Anquan Boldin, Reggie Wayne, Vincent Jackson, Brandon Lloyd, Larry Fitzgerald, Dwayne Bowe are all complete wide receivers that I'd take over Desean Jackson

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

I truly want to know if it was only NFL players or if some outside source screwed up these lists. I cannot believe NFL players would overrate other players soo much.

 

I think the fact of the matter is that for the most part, players usually view other players differently then how the fans view them. And that has to be considered when you think about how the players would go about assembling this list.

 

For instance... If I'm a defensive player watching film with my DC... And were prepping for a game, the coach is probably going to bring up Desean Jackson's name a lot more then he will... Say, Jeremy Maclin, or even if I was preparing for the Packers, Greg Jennings... Because fact of the matter is, that with the ball in his hands or if he's not accounted for, Desean Jackson becomes one of the most dangerous players in the NFL. Same thing for an offensive player concerning defensive players... Since you hear his name more often, and you probably do a lot more to account for him, despite his production, etc, it would probably compel you as a player to put him high on your list.

 

How prolific is the player? How many highlight reels does this player produce? How badly did this player beat your team? How much respect do you have for the player? How popular is he around the league?

 

The players probably didn't spend anywhere near as much time looking at stats, game splits, situations, as some analyst or fan would spend looking at players. And I think that has to be really considered when talking about this list.

[westbrookforsix 28]

Jackson's punt return ability does not place him over Reggie Wayne. lol

 

What the players DID NOT give Jackson credit for his is uncanny ability to disappear. If the deep ball is taken away, Desean is completely removed from the offensive side of the ball.

 

If he can't run away from the defender, he stops trying and stops giving any effort. And being that he is too afraid to run any other route.... He becomes a non-factor.

First of all, I don't think he's better than Wayne... I don't even think he's better than Maclin. But when you count the whole package of what he does, he's close to Reggie Wayne in overall positive effect on the game.

 

You said "if the deep ball is taken away"... If the deep ball is taken away, he keeps going deep and lets his teammates win games. If he draws double coverage and forces the safeties to start the play 15+ yards deep and already on their heels, he's already winning and doesn't even need to touch the ball. I thought I made that pretty clear in my post.

 

Defenses, and safeties in particular respect him on every down, and it opens up:

-the underneath routes so that Vick throws less interceptions to safeties biting on short routes. This makes the game way simpler for Vick, and I would attribute his normally sky high INT numbers going down last season directly to that.

-the running lanes for Vick to go to the edge and get an eeeeasy 10+ yards. First downs that you could walk to are nice to have.

-the running lanes for LeSean McCoy to bounce to the outside, and not have to see a safety until he's already 7 yards down the field. 5.2 yards per carry.

 

DeSean Jackson does so much more to a defense than catch a 60 yard bomb here and there. These things I listed are things that real NFL players recognize, are terrified of, and it is precisely why he's ranked so high. Dmac hit the nail on the head in the last post. It's also why he isn't expendable, and our offense takes two steps back if we lose him.

 

What they also failed to mention is that he dropped nearly 20% of the balls thrown his way last year. You can't be a top 100 player if you drop more passes than anyone in the league.

Deep balls that you have to track over your shoulder are 10 times harder to catch than a Wes Welker 4 yard hitch. No exaggeration on the "10 times." It's not like 20% of the balls were in his hands wide open and he just dropped it. He dropped a bunch from contact, and any ball that 5'10 DJax gets his hand on running along the sideline with one, or two guys next to him, is a "catchable ball" according to the site you're referring to.

 

He also only dropped under 10% of his passes in the his first 2 seasons, and suffered from a concussion this year, so we'll see where his head's at in this upcoming year. Like I've said before, he can kill a defense without even needing to catch the ball or be thrown to. And as soon as they fall asleep and draw coverage away from him and he's 1 on 1, he strikes.

 

 

Seriously... did you guys want to see a top 100 list voted by the players as to who they respect and fear the most (like Hester)... or did you just want yet another fan list regurgitating last year's statistics that we've already seen? Why not just send them a link to NFL.com's stats and do our top 10's by position that way?