UPDATE: Joe Paterno, School President OUT

[blotsfan 2,112]

Oh my bad. I didn't realize that you've been in this situation before. I'm glad you have knowledge of what your exact reaction would be beyond tough guy internet talk. The grad student deserved to lose his job. He's already lost it.

[BwareDWare94 723]

Paterno should be fired this second. The truth is out, he reported it to the athletic director and then stopped caring. He let a child molester be free for 9 years. I don't care if he's been coaching since the 1800s, there is no excuse for someone who failed so miserably at being a decent human being to be a coach at a major football school. Child molestation is a lot worse than cheating on your wife.

 

What I've been trying to discover is whether or not Joe had ABSOLUTE PROOF or if he just had word of this former quarterback. Did he only have the words of the guy who claimed to have witnessed it, or did he absolutely, positively KNOW that it happened? If he knew beyond all doubt that it did happen, then yes, I agree with you. He should be dismissed with no questions asked.

 

At the same time, if he couldn't be positive that it happened and didn't want to forever tarnish his friend's reputation if these accusations turned out to be false, then he did the right thing by reporting it and letting the school deal with it, which they didn't, and that's what bothers me more than anything. I blame Penn State more than anything, because they were aware of the possibility that this was going on and did nothing about it.

 

The truth about people is our protective nature often outweighs what we know to be right, and the scale gets tipped in the wrong direction. I almost wonder if Joe was afraid to tarnish Sandusky's reputation in the event that the accusations were false.

 

Perhaps I don't have enough information. The simple truth is we have to protect children from monsters like pedophiles because they have no way to protect themselves. Honestly, it's pathetic that this wasn't exposed right away. It's just like molestation by priests. It gets out, but the church plays it down to preserve its image. Next thing you know one of the boys who got molested has offed himself later in life because he couldn't deal with the past. The end result is far worse than a tarnished reputation.

[blotsfan 2,112]

What I've been trying to discover is whether or not Joe had ABSOLUTE PROOF or if he just had word of this former quarterback. Did he only have the words of the guy who claimed to have witnessed it, or did he absolutely, positively KNOW that it happened? If he knew beyond all doubt that it did happen, then yes, I agree with you. He should be dismissed with no questions asked.

 

At the same time, if he couldn't be positive that it happened and didn't want to forever tarnish his friend's reputation if these accusations turned out to be false, then he did the right thing by reporting it and letting the school deal with it, which they didn't, and that's what bothers me more than anything. I blame Penn State more than anything, because they were aware of the possibility that this was going on and did nothing about it.

 

The truth about people is our protective nature often outweighs what we know to be right, and the scale gets tipped in the wrong direction. I almost wonder if Joe was afraid to tarnish Sandusky's reputation in the event that the accusations were false.

 

Perhaps I don't have enough information. The simple truth is we have to protect children from monsters like pedophiles because they have no way to protect themselves. Honestly, it's pathetic that this wasn't exposed right away. It's just like molestation by priests. It gets out, but the church plays it down to preserve its image. Next thing you know one of the boys who got molested has offed himself later in life because he couldn't deal with the past. The end result is far worse than a tarnished reputation.

Absolute proof is only needed for a conviction, not to let the police know about a possible pedophile.

[BucD+ 648]

Oh my bad. I didn't realize that you've been in this situation before. I'm glad you have knowledge of what your exact reaction would be beyond tough guy internet talk. The grad student deserved to lose his job. He's already lost it.

 

I didn't realize you had to have experience and knowledge to react to seeing said situation.

 

It's not "tough guy internet talk" it's called being a man...not a child...and not being able to watch another GROWN ASS MAN molest a child.

 

Sorry man...I agreed with you up until this second page...some of the dumbest shit I've read on this board...IMO.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

Far worse.

 

For sure. It's deserve of the death penalty, is it not?

[KeVo 176]

For sure. It's deserve of the death penalty, is it not?

Should be.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Oh my bad. I didn't realize that you've been in this situation before. I'm glad you have knowledge of what your exact reaction would be beyond tough guy internet talk. The grad student deserved to lose his job. He's already lost it.

 

I think it's funny that you defend the guy who actually had proof of these sick acts, while you destroy Joe Pa for not acting off here say.

 

What I've been trying to discover is whether or not Joe had ABSOLUTE PROOF or if he just had word of this former quarterback. Did he only have the words of the guy who claimed to have witnessed it, or did he absolutely, positively KNOW that it happened? If he knew beyond all doubt that it did happen, then yes, I agree with you. He should be dismissed with no questions asked.

 

At the same time, if he couldn't be positive that it happened and didn't want to forever tarnish his friend's reputation if these accusations turned out to be false, then he did the right thing by reporting it and letting the school deal with it, which they didn't, and that's what bothers me more than anything. I blame Penn State more than anything, because they were aware of the possibility that this was going on and did nothing about it.

 

The truth about people is our protective nature often outweighs what we know to be right, and the scale gets tipped in the wrong direction. I almost wonder if Joe was afraid to tarnish Sandusky's reputation in the event that the accusations were false.

 

Perhaps I don't have enough information. The simple truth is we have to protect children from monsters like pedophiles because they have no way to protect themselves. Honestly, it's pathetic that this wasn't exposed right away. It's just like molestation by priests. It gets out, but the church plays it down to preserve its image. Next thing you know one of the boys who got molested has offed himself later in life because he couldn't deal with the past. The end result is far worse than a tarnished reputation.

 

I think this is a fair point... .If some guy comes up to you and says this stuff is occurring, who is to say it is 100% true? I know it's hard to imagine now... especially after all this comes out. But at the time, does Paterno know that Sandursky feasts on little boys or is it just vicious rumor?

 

If you suspect a coworker of theft, you don't go off and report it to the authorities. You are going to talk to your boss and let them investigate first...

 

Which is exactly what Joe Pa did.

 

If Joe knew about Sandursky BEFORE the eye witness account, it looks even worse. And I can't buy that 15 or so years have gone by and he hasn't heard anything more about Sandursky's pathetic and disturbing hobby in which case... he also should have come forward.

 

And again.. let me say.. I do not think Paterno is absent of all blame.

Edited November 10, 2011 by Favre4Ever

[WindyCitySports 407]

I agree with what F4E said about Blots defending the grad student over JoePa. How the he'll can you do that? Think about yourself in both of their situations: are you more likely to call the cops if you see it happening, or if someone tells you it happened? I'm guessing the former.

 

The whole situation is really fucking sad. It pisses me off. Sandusky is a fucking scumbag and he now successfully ruined dozens of young children's lives and taken down a coach and a school that I have always loved for their prestige and honor. I guess I get so emotional about it becuase I like to think that there are some schools and people out there that don't do illegal things. I've always known Penn State and my Notre Dame as two of those schools and Joe Pa and Lou Holtz as two of those people. Watching Paterno go up in flames like this makes me want to punch a wall.

[NaTaS+ 958]

I have always loved for their prestige and honor.

 

No corporation has honor - they are there to make money and recruit new students of high quality. Might as well get used to it.

[blotsfan 2,112]

People misunderstood me. I never said the grad student was completely free of wrong-doing, just that I don't blame him for his initial reaction of running. He deserved to be fired just as Paterno did. Its just by the time I posted anything he had already been fired.

[WindyCitySports 407]

No corporation has honor - they are there to make money and recruit new students of high quality. Might as well get used to it.

That isn't true. His generation of coaches actually had quite a few people that were honest and put their priorities (academics, law-abiding) over winning. Lou Holtz was one of them. Today we have a generation of coaches that are much less responsible. Characters like Urban Meyer (I laugh at the thought of him replacing Paterno as he is just as - if not more - corrupt), Nick Saban, Jim Tressel, etc. I have no doubt that those coaches wouldn't have even reported the incident to the athletic director because winning depended on it.

 

So JoePa is fired. This shit is sad. I can't stand seeing 84 year-old Joe Paterno, Nittany Lion for life, built the program himself, a love for the university that is unmatched, being fired for not going the extra step. He obviously should have done more, but I honestly hate this shit.

 

Honestly, I probably wouldn't get so emotional over a pro sports coach. There is something about NCAA sports that brings a new level of emotion for me. I know several people who have gone to PSU and have deep roots there. I also see similarities between PSU and the school that I have roots at, Notre Dame. It makes me so sad to see a school that I respect so much, a coach that I respect so much, and a sport (college football) that I love so much go up in flames.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

This has gotten out of hand. I just don't know what to think or say.

[KiLaSix9+ 398]

I have a question: did these acts occur within Penn State University? I know I read that the grad student witnessed something in the showers. So when were talking about him molesting children, does this mean he would bring little kids with him to PSU and do his horrible acts there OR are we talking about him molesting freshman students?

[NaTaS+ 958]

That isn't true. His generation of coaches actually had quite a few people that were honest and put their priorities (academics, law-abiding) over winning. Lou Holtz was one of them. Today we have a generation of coaches that are much less responsible. Characters like Urban Meyer (I laugh at the thought of him replacing Paterno as he is just as - if not more - corrupt), Nick Saban, Jim Tressel, etc. I have no doubt that those coaches wouldn't have even reported the incident to the athletic director because winning depended on it.

 

Firstly, I was taking about a corporation, PSU and other schools and you're talking individuals - and I said 'these days' and you're talking the older generations of coaches. You're way off base.

 

You're actually going to compare what Jim Tressel did to JoePa and argue Tress was more wrong or at least he has less character? You are a fucking blind JoePa homer.

Edited November 10, 2011 by NaTaS

[WindyCitySports 407]

Firstly, I was taking about a corporation, PSU and other schools and you're talking individuals - and I said 'these days' and you're talking the older generations of coaches. You're way off base.

 

You're actually going to compare what Jim Tressel did to JoePa and argue Tress was more wrong or at least he has less character? You are a fucking blind JoePa homer.

Pateno is part of that older generation.

 

No I am not at all saying that what Tressel did was worse. I am saying that college football these days is corrupt and the problem doesn't end at the State College, PA city limits.

 

And in case you haven't noticed, I am not a Penn State fan. I'm not the people on the streets defending Joe Pa because I'm a PSU fan. I am a Notre Dame fan who has built up so much respect and admiration for Paterno over the years that I want to hear the whole story before I start blaming Joe Pa. He definitely should have done more, but the whole situation saddens me. I will miss seeing Joe Pa on the sidelines and in the media.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

I have a question: did these acts occur within Penn State University? I know I read that the grad student witnessed something in the showers. So when were talking about him molesting children, does this mean he would bring little kids with him to PSU and do his horrible acts there OR are we talking about him molesting freshman students?

 

According to what ESPN said, there was at least one instance where it occurred at Penn State, and I think that one instance is the case with the showers... Whoever that child was was not a Penn State frosh, he was a lot younger apparently...

[KeVo 176]

According to what ESPN said, there was at least one instance where it occurred at Penn State, and I think that one instance is the case with the showers... Whoever that child was was not a Penn State frosh, he was a lot younger apparently...

From what I understand, the child wasn't even in their teens yet. So very young.

[Milla4Prez63 678]

Absolute proof is only needed for a conviction, not to let the police know about a possible pedophile.

 

This. Just because there isn't 100% proof doesn't mean Joe shouldn't have gone to authorities and let more kids be raped until he gets 100% proof.

 

If you hear your neighbors fighting next door and then all of a sudden a gun goes off, do you just sit there and say "Well, I have no proof a gun was shot at someone..." and do nothing?

 

Sorry, but JoePa and many others could've put a sick man behind bars and saved innocent children, but they instead covered for the guy and practically told him to go bang little boys on his own time. He deserves criticism and he deserved to be fired.

[WindyCitySports 407]

This. Just because there isn't 100% proof doesn't mean Joe shouldn't have gone to authorities and let more kids be raped until he gets 100% proof.

 

If you hear your neighbors fighting next door and then all of a sudden a gun goes off, do you just sit there and say "Well, I have no proof a gun was shot at someone..." and do nothing?

 

Sorry, but JoePa and many others could've put a sick man behind bars and saved innocent children, but they instead covered for the guy and practically told him to go bang little boys on his own time. He deserves criticism and he deserved to be fired.

Good point about the gun example, and Joe Pa admitted that he should have done more. However, I believe that what he did do was enough for him to keep his job. If he hadn't acted at all, then that's a different story.

[KiLaSix9+ 398]

I read up and apparently he would take the kids on campus as part of his outreach program or w/e. So now I understand that part. I also read a new article in which they are looking into a rumor that says Sandusky was pimpin' out these little boys to rich, older men. This shit is getting sicker by the minute.

[oochymp 2,393]

I have a question: did these acts occur within Penn State University? I know I read that the grad student witnessed something in the showers. So when were talking about him molesting children, does this mean he would bring little kids with him to PSU and do his horrible acts there OR are we talking about him molesting freshman students?

A few of the incidents did occur on the Penn State campus, Sandusky would bring the victims to games as an initial enticement and would bring them to Penn State facilities for private workouts.

 

After reading through the Grand Jury Report (here's a link, but as a fair warning it's disgusting: Link) I have a lot of issues with how this has been presented. Primarily, there were two occasions prior to the 2002 incident that should have gotten public attention, but nobody's talking about them. In a 1998 incident (Victim 6 on the Grand Jury Report) that received a full investigation by the University Police after the victim's mother reported the misconduct until then District Attorney Ray Gricar decided there would be no criminal charges. I don't know why they didn't want to press charges, investigators listened to conversations between the victim and his mother about Sandusky showering with him and there was a confrontation between Sandusky and the victim's mother in which Sandusky would not promise to never shower with another boy. I would like to see Gricar's head on a stake long before Paterno's. In 2000 (Victim 8) a janitor (Jim Calhoun) witnessed Sandusky performing oral sex on a boy he estimated to be somewhere between 11 and 13 and another janitor (Ronald Petrosky) witnessed the two (Sandusky and Victim 8) leaving the shower together and walking down a hallway holding hands. Calhoun reported the incident to the other janitors on his staff including his supervisor and all his supervisor did was tell him who he could report it to, not even an offer to go with Calhoun.

 

Also of note, the 2002 incident wasn't referred to even the University Police and nobody made any effort to find information about the 1998 incident and investigation, even though that investigation was done entirely by the University Police, which would make finding that information incredibly easy for school officials.

 

Removing Paterno is purely a PR move and IMO the wrong move. I'm not saying that Paterno shouldn't have done more, he even admits he wishes he'd done more, but to me the culpability lies about 10% with Paterno and 90% with the school officials Paterno trusted to investigate the matter. All that Paterno did wrong was put to much trust in school officials, and I don't think a guy should get fired for that.

 

 

[Sarge+ 3,436]

^ Best post on this subject that I have seen thus far.

[KiLaSix9+ 398]

A few of the incidents did occur on the Penn State campus, Sandusky would bring the victims to games as an initial enticement and would bring them to Penn State facilities for private workouts.

 

After reading through the Grand Jury Report (here's a link, but as a fair warning it's disgusting: Link) I have a lot of issues with how this has been presented. Primarily, there were two occasions prior to the 2002 incident that should have gotten public attention, but nobody's talking about them. In a 1998 incident (Victim 6 on the Grand Jury Report) that received a full investigation by the University Police after the victim's mother reported the misconduct until then District Attorney Ray Gricar decided there would be no criminal charges. I don't know why they didn't want to press charges, investigators listened to conversations between the victim and his mother about Sandusky showering with him and there was a confrontation between Sandusky and the victim's mother in which Sandusky would not promise to never shower with another boy. I would like to see Gricar's head on a stake long before Paterno's. In 2000 (Victim 8) a janitor (Jim Calhoun) witnessed Sandusky performing oral sex on a boy he estimated to be somewhere between 11 and 13 and another janitor (Ronald Petrosky) witnessed the two (Sandusky and Victim 8) leaving the shower together and walking down a hallway holding hands. Calhoun reported the incident to the other janitors on his staff including his supervisor and all his supervisor did was tell him who he could report it to, not even an offer to go with Calhoun.

 

Also of note, the 2002 incident wasn't referred to even the University Police and nobody made any effort to find information about the 1998 incident and investigation, even though that investigation was done entirely by the University Police, which would make finding that information incredibly easy for school officials.

 

Removing Paterno is purely a PR move and IMO the wrong move. I'm not saying that Paterno shouldn't have done more, he even admits he wishes he'd done more, but to me the culpability lies about 10% with Paterno and 90% with the school officials Paterno trusted to investigate the matter. All that Paterno did wrong was put to much trust in school officials, and I don't think a guy should get fired for that.

Wow, thats graphic. I only read up till the 3rd paragraph and couldn't keep going. As a father myself (of a boy) I can feel my blood pressure rising. I would beat this guy's ass if I had the chance. I also think that all these eyewitnesses, grown ass men that saw these things, should be shun from society for being such fucking cowards.

[oochymp 2,393]

Just to add to my previous post, I think the actions against Paterno have been entirely media driven, there is very little in the Grand Jury pronouncement that implicates Paterno at all, but he's the biggest public figure available for the media to go after, and they have. For the last few days everybody has been talking about Paterno's involvement and it's gotten to the point where the school simply can't keep him because of what the media has made of his very limited involvement. To be fair, I'm not making the assumption that the media was trying to run him out, I just think they were trying to get the best story out of the issue as possible, and the best story available means the highest profile person involved.

 

After a little research, it seems Ray Gricar has been missing since 2005 and was declared dead earlier this year (suicide is not suspected) and Tony Gricar (Ray's nephew) has stated a belief that Ray would not have backed down from prosecuting Sandusky unless he didn't have a strong case and implied that the University stonewalled the investigation. I'm not sure how much credit to give that since Tony obviously would present things in the best light for his uncle, but it does add another element to the issues at hand.

[NaTaS+ 958]

Removing Paterno is purely a PR move and IMO the wrong move. I'm not saying that Paterno shouldn't have done more, he even admits he wishes he'd done more, but to me the culpability lies about 10% with Paterno and 90% with the school officials Paterno trusted to investigate the matter. All that Paterno did wrong was put to much trust in school officials, and I don't think a guy should get fired for that.

 

There is no way we know enough about the situation to make that assertion. Here is a great article discussing why America is just so fucked up in terms of priorities. Even this thread is all about JoePa and support of him.

 

As I write this commentary, Joe Paterno has been fired as Penn State football coach — effective immediately. Thousands of Penn State college students are in the streets, angry, sad, disillusioned, emotionally wrecked, overturning cars, and chanting Joe Paterno’s name.

 

The riot police are in place to prevent the situation from getting out of hand. Those aren’t hoodlums with no hope and no future. They are educated, middle class, salt-of-the-earth Pennsylvania college kids attending a well-respected university. What is wrong with this picture? What does it say about America?

 

Let’s start with the obvious. Why aren’t those educated college kids out protesting on behalf of the little boys who were allegedly sexually assaulted by a longtime Penn State assistant coach? Has America so lost its compass?

 

These kids are in love with a coach because . . . he's a celebrity? Because he wins football games? Because he wins football games, all else is forgiven? If someone is a celebrity, nothing else matters? We are lucky this isn’t someone like Kim Kardashian or Paris Hilton involved in child rape. We’d almost certainly witness mobs burn Los Angeles to the ground to show their support for their favorite celeb-turned-child-rapist. A sad commentary on all that is wrong with America.

 

Then there’s the actual conduct of coach Joe Paterno. Here is a good, moral man who has spent a lifetime molding the lives of young men at Penn State. Yet back in 2002 he heard from a graduate assistant that his longtime assistant coach was having sex in the shower with a 10-year-old boy.

 

Paterno reported the incident to his superiors, but then never mentioned it again? How strange is that?

 

He never thought to protect the 10-year-old boy? Never thought the boy’s life (or certainly mental state) might be in danger? Never thought to find out who the boy was and talk to him? Never thought that stopping this sexual deviant might possibly save other boys? Never thought to confront his friend of 30 years and ask him what happened? Never thought to follow up with his superiors to ask about the young boys? Never even considered going to the police?

 

How could this happen in my America? Is everyone truly mad? Is winning football games more important than a 10-year-old boy’s safety? How about dozens of innocent little boys? Is protecting a respected institution more important than stopping a child rapist?

 

Why would educated responsible administrators with six-figure and seven-figure salaries make the same decision to cover up a heinous crime as priests and bishops and cardinals for the Catholic Church? Did they not consider “what if that was my little boy in the shower with that 60-year-old pervert?”

 

Is the reputation of Penn State worth more than a little boy’s innocence? How about a little boy’s life? Did anyone consider that those boys might someday commit suicide from the shame of what was done to them? Is the world really that selfish, thoughtless, and uncaring?

 

Keep in mind a key fact as we all judge Joe Paterno. The coach/pervert/rapist in question had an office in the Penn State football complex since his retirement in 1999. This incident took place in 2002.

 

So Coach Paterno was told a man with an office in his building was using the football locker room to sexually assault little boys. And for the next 10 years he let the rapist/pervert keep his office in the building? For the next 10 years he let the man continue to conduct business in his office down the hall? He walked by his friend’s office and never thought to confront him about the incident? He walked by that office and never thought about the little boys? He walked by that office and never once thought to follow up with his superiors?

 

And the students of Penn State think this is a role model? A God? They want to waste their precious time protesting, chanting Paterno’s name, rioting, and destroying property in the name of a man who never thought to protect little boys being abused, molested, and raped in his football facility? There is something very wrong, something very rancid in America in 2011.

 

By the way, would anyone be protesting, crying, chanting, or rioting in the name of a losing football coach? So this is about winning. If you win football games, anything goes? Even the cover-up of child rape is okay?

 

These student protestors are educated, salt-of-the-earth, middle-class Pennsylvania kids with the values of a prison chain gang. They learned their values and morals where exactly? MTV? Beavis & Butthead? The Kardashians? Watching Internet porn? It’s all frightening and a sign of the rapid decline of America.

 

Lastly, I’m betting none of those kids either knows of, or cares, about the important news of the day — Italy joining Greece on the verge of complete economic Armageddon. Or how about the impending collapse of the entire European Union due to perhaps the worst financial crisis in world history. All of which caused an almost 400-point drop on Wall Street. Some believe we now face the very real prospect of a Great Depression II, food lines, tent cities, and a crisis that no college student alive today has ever imagined. Their future upon graduation from Penn State may have just taken a turn from dismal to bleak.

 

But hey, why should that matter? Those students have more important things to worry about: Penn State has a football game against Nebraska on Saturday. This is the bread-and-circus generation that expects government to take care of them from cradle to grave. Now we all understand why.

Read more on Newsmax.com: Reaction to Paterno Firing Shows Just What's Wrong With America

 

 

Sad, sad, state of affairs. Look back on my post when Tress was fired for covering up something that was not illegal but against the rules of the NCAA. I called him a liar and never made excuses for his actions. This JoePa cat covers up for his friends and he gets excuses, praise and riots? Fucked.Up.