Pro Bowl Rosters and Discussion thread

[FartWaffles 1,857]

Nice to see Arian and J-Jo make the roster, but I also feel like Cushing and Chris Myers definitely got snubbed out for the more "popular" names in the NFL. (Ray Lewis, Maurkice Pouncey)

[Duck Fallas 209]

London Fletcher is going to be the first player inducted in the hall of fame without being voted into a single pro bowl

Ain't that the mother fucking truth!

 

He has been to two pro-bowls, but only as an alternate, never been selected. It is kind of his indicative of his entire career, though, never missed a game and averages 110 tackles a season, but rarely gets even mentioned among the leagues best LB's.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

S-Jax would be the lone canidate for St. Louis. Unfortunately...there are only 3 RB spots available and all of them have had great years. You can only do so much when you are literally the lone bright spot for a franchise.

 

 

[Duck Fallas 209]

Tackles: 163

 

Sacks: 2.0

 

Fumbles Forced: 3

 

Inteceptions: 2

 

 

VS.

 

Tackles: 92

 

Sacks: 0.0

 

Fumbles Forced: 0

 

Interceptions: 3

 

VS.

 

Tackles: 93

 

Sacks: 2

 

Fumbles Forced: 4

 

Interceptions: 1

 

In what way are the other two backers more worthy than the first? I can accept Willis, but Urlacher? Really?

[Bay 2,003]

 

Yeah. Chris Long has had a pretty damn good season. My team has witnessed some of it up close and personal.

[Mathias 394]

Stafford did. Romo did not.

 

Imo it's Rodgers > Brees > Stafford = Manning > Romo in terms of the 5 QBs in the NFC that have their names mentioned for this pro bowl.

 

Stafford had some bad weeks because of his finger and he was wearing a glove but when he was healthy he was fucking tearing shit up.

 

Manning imo deserves more credit. He's a good QB and I think he's still living in his brother's shadow. Now that Peyton was hurt this whole year we're starting to notice that he can be a really good QB. He's also having one of his best seasons to go along with more of a spotlight.

 

Romo is just typical Romo every year. Nothing changes with him. He's fantastic one week then leaves everyone baffled over his stupidity the next.

 

This kids^, is why you should not let the media and personal bias get in the way of forming an opinion and presenting it as factual.

 

To the classroom we go, badgers:

 

But no Tony Romo?

 

Pardon my Jamaican, but kissmirass.

 

Tony Romo is 5-2 in Dallas' last eight games with one incomplete. Manning's team is 3-5. Romo has thrown 22 touchdowns to only four interceptions in that span.

 

More?

Want stats? Romo has a 102.4 QB rating. Manning sits at 90.3 Romo has thrown for 29 touchdowns to Manning's 26. Romo has only tossed nine interceptions to Manning's 13. Yeah, well what about their completion percentages? Romo is at 65.4%, a full five points higher than Eli. On throws 20 yards downfield or more, Romo's accuracy percentage (a PFF stat that accounts for throw aways, spikes, dropped balls, etc) is 55.9%. Manning's is 46.7%

 

We'll quote one more...

Not a fan of PFF? OK, what about Football Outsiders? While Eli has thrown for 700 more raw yards than Tony Romo, that is more of a function of the Giants not having any semblance of a running game this season. FO's DYAR stat measures how well a player performs better than the average replacement player. Basically, if you take a player out and put an average backup in the exact same game situations, this is how much yardage he's worth.

 

Romo's DYAR is 1560 to Manning's 1187. This despite playing in 1 1/2 less games than Eli. His DVOA percentage (Defense-Adjusted Value Over Average) is 36.7% compared to Manning's 19.9%. This stat puts in percentage terms how much better a player is than the average replacement.

http://dallas.sbnation.com/dallas-cowboys/2011/12/27/2665090/ok-ill-say-it-cowboys-qb-tony-romo-was-robbed-for-the-nfc-pro-bowl/in/2426288

 

So what this whole post is about, is that, Antonio Ramiro Romo is far superior to Eli Manning, and it's not even close. Come to peace with it, and now.

 

But continue to let personal bias and the media manipulate you.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Mathias

[RazorStar 4,025]

I dunno... St. Louis is pretty terrible.

 

 

S-Jax would be the lone canidate for St. Louis. Unfortunately...there are only 3 RB spots available and all of them have had great years. You can only do so much when you are literally the lone bright spot for a franchise.

 

 

Chris Long. Loud Cough. Damn, I was beaten to it.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

Stafford did. Romo did not.

 

Imo it's Rodgers > Brees > Stafford = Manning > Romo in terms of the 5 QBs in the NFC that have their names mentioned for this pro bowl.

 

Stafford had some bad weeks because of his finger and he was wearing a glove but when he was healthy he was fucking tearing shit up.

 

Manning imo deserves more credit. He's a good QB and I think he's still living in his brother's shadow. Now that Peyton was hurt this whole year we're starting to notice that he can be a really good QB. He's also having one of his best seasons to go along with more of a spotlight.

 

Romo is just typical Romo every year. Nothing changes with him. He's fantastic one week then leaves everyone baffled over his stupidity the next.

 

Romo hasn't had a bad game since week 3. Since week 3, he's been the best QB in the NFC behind Brees and Rodgers. You clearly haven't been watching Dallas if you actually believe the hogwash you just posted.

 

Just sayin.

[AllYouNeedIsLovie 377]

lol thinking Stafford is better than Romo/Eli. If Stafford didn't have Megatron, his numbers wouldn't be anywhere close to where they are right now. I can't count the number of times he has thrown the ball up for grabs and Megatron has bailed him out.

[BradyFan81 404]

Not a bad list IMO.

[Thanatos 2,847]

lol thinking Stafford is better than Romo/Eli. If Stafford didn't have Megatron, his numbers wouldn't be anywhere close to where they are right now. I can't count the number of times he has thrown the ball up for grabs and Megatron has bailed him out.

 

And if Eli didn't have Nicks, his numbers would also suffer. Stafford has gotten a lot better at not doing just that.

 

You can't punish a QB just because he has a great WR to throw to. He knows Megatron is capable of going up and getting a ball, it doesn't mean he would throw it if he didn't have Megatron to throw to.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Thanatos19

[Thanatos 2,847]

3 more Panthers were named as first alternates: Cam Newton, DeAngelo Williams, and Jordan Gross.

 

For AFC QBs, the first two alternates are Andy Dalton and Tim Tebow, in that order.

[AllYouNeedIsLovie 377]

And if Eli didn't have Nicks, his numbers would also suffer. Stafford has gotten a lot better at not doing just that.

 

You can't punish a QB just because he has a great WR to throw to. He knows Megatron is capable of going up and getting a ball, it doesn't mean he would throw it if he didn't have Megatron to throw to.

 

You're comparing Nicks to Megatron? Really? lol. Nicks is no where near as dominant as Megatron and Nicks has dropped a few TD's this year for Eli.

 

Stafford throwing the ball up for grabs and having Megatron get it for him does not make Stafford a good QB. There are only a few WR's in the NFL like Megatron who can just out jump everyone and catch those passes. If Romo and Eli had Megatron, there numbers would be even better than they are right now.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

lol thinking Stafford is better than Romo/Eli. If Stafford didn't have Megatron, his numbers wouldn't be anywhere close to where they are right now. I can't count the number of times he has thrown the ball up for grabs and Megatron has bailed him out.

 

This is kinda B.S. Are we to the point now where we penalize a QB for taking advantage of his weapons?

 

Should we say Tom Brady's TD # in 07 was unimpressive because he had Moss?

 

Kurt Warner Super Bowl run in 08 because he had Fitzgerald?

 

Manning because he's had Harrison and eventually Wayne?

 

Rodgers because he has the deepest group of receivers in the NFL?

 

The list goes on. Stafford doesn't use his #1 receiver any more or less then the average QB uses his #1 receiver. And CJ has been here since 2007, he's had over 10 QBs throw him the ball within that time span, and nobody has been able to get that much out of Johnson.

 

Obviously there are times when he has chucked it 50-60 yards down the field and let CJ do his thing, all his throws haven't been perfect, but that hasn't happened nearly as much as your making it out to be the case. Bottom line is that no way in hell is 4500+ yards, 36TDs on 14 INTs is no fluke.

[Thanatos 2,847]

This is kinda B.S. Are we to the point now where we penalize a QB for taking advantage of his weapons?

 

Should we say Tom Brady's TD # in 07 was unimpressive because he had Moss?

 

Kurt Warner Super Bowl run in 08 because he had Fitzgerald?

 

Manning because he's had Harrison and eventually Wayne?

 

Rodgers because he has the deepest group of receivers in the NFL?

 

The list goes on. Stafford doesn't use his #1 receiver any more or less then the average QB uses his #1 receiver. And CJ has been here since 2007, he's had over 10 QBs throw him the ball within that time span, and nobody has been able to get that much out of Johnson.

 

Obviously there are times when he has chucked it 50-60 yards down the field and let CJ do his thing, all his throws haven't been perfect, but that hasn't happened nearly as much as your making it out to be the case. Bottom line is that no way in hell is 4500+ yards, 36TDs on 14 INTs is no fluke.

 

Thank you for saying what I was trying to say in a much better way.

 

You can't assume that without Megatron, Stafford is no good. He takes advantage of the weapon that he has- that's a good thing for a QB to do. That was my point with Nicks, since he's the Giants #1 WR, (at least for now), if you remove any QB's #1 WR, their numbers will suffer. Take out Smitty from Newton, he's probably around 3k yards instead of 4k.

 

Take out Andre from Schaub when both of them are healthy, and Schaub's numbers take a drastic hit. You can't assume they would throw the ball the same way if they didn't have a WR like Megatron or Andre.

[Jayrus 51]

Am I the only one wondering how Matt Forte got voted in? Isn't he on injured reserve? I mean, yeah I was hoping Marshawn Lynch would get in the way he's been playing this year, but I knew he had alot of stiff competition. But they voted in someone who can't even $!@#ing play for the rest of the year over him? Did they even check before they voted?

 

 

 

Oh well, he'll just have to show them up next year. Until then I guess I'll just have to be happy Earl Thomas got in.

[AllYouNeedIsLovie 377]

Megatron is different than most recievers though. You can throw it up to him and he'll get the ball no matter what. He's different than just a good receiver that gets open. As a QB you still have to hit him in stride. But with Megatron, it's seriously just throwing a fly pattern up for grabs and hoping he catches it. I could even do that. Not saying that is where all Stafford's production is coming from, but a decent amount of it is. And I never said that Stafford would be a bad QB without Megatron, I am just saying he wouldn't be anywhere near as good if he had average WR's to throw to.

 

And for all those examples you used D-Mac, those QB's have all proven themselves with some pretty average WR's and have made them look a lot better than they are. Moss and maybe Fitz are the only WR's on that list that compare to Megatron's athleticism in that he can just out jump everyone for the ball.

[AllYouNeedIsLovie 377]

Stafford doesn't use his #1 receiver any more or less then the average QB uses his #1 receiver.

 

Stafford doesn't use his #1 receiver any more than the average QB? Really? You realize CJ has double the amount of receiving yards than any other Lions receiver, right?

[oochymp 2,393]

Stafford doesn't use his #1 receiver any more than the average QB? Really? You realize CJ has double the amount of receiving yards than any other Lions receiver, right?

that's true, but hoe much of that just speaks to what CJ can do with the ball? True, he's got 1437 yards and #2 on the team (Pettigrew) only has 661, but if you look at receptions it looks a lot closer: 85 to 76, a difference of only 9 by comparison NE's top pass catcher (Wes Welker) has 116 catches while #2 (Gronk) has 82, a difference of 34, the Patriots are actually an outlier, but most teams fall around the same as Detroit in terms of the difference between the #1 and #2 in catches, in NO it's 91 to 81 (Jimmy Graham to Darren Sproles) in Pittsburgh it's 71 to 63 (Wallace and Brown) in Green Bay it's 67 and 59 (Jennings and Nelson) and I could keep going, but you get the idea, Johnson may inflate Stafford's yardage numbers, but you can't say it's because Stafford looks his way more than other QBs look to their top targets, and regarding his yardage I don't really think that's relevant since he's less than 70 yards behind Eli and over 600 yards ahead of Romo right now

 

If anyone is wondering, the #1/2 numbers in New York are 76 catches for Cruz and 71 for Nicks, and Cruz had 6 catches in the one game Nicks missed, so the argument is there that he does a better job of spreading the ball around but I would counter that Nicks and Cruz are much closer in their abilities as receivers than Calvin Johnson and Brandon Pettigrew (and it says something about the receivers behind CJ in Detroit that their #2 in receptions is the TE)

[KiLaSix9+ 398]

Weak sauce argument. Every QB has a weapon or two that they are going to favor. If that target happens to be a 6'5 monster with a ridic wingspan and athleticism then hell yes, your going to be able to throw it up there in coverage and know hel make a play. Does it mean he would normally throw up passes into coverage like that with an average WR? No. Trying to discredit a QBs performance because of the weapons he has around him is such a bail out.

[Thanatos 2,847]

My point here is that Stafford/Romo/Eli are, to me, nearly all equal, so it should come down to this particular season's numbers, not looking at past history or anything.

 

That, to me, eliminates Eli.

 

You want to argue that Romo is having a better season than Stafford, statistically, that argument is not possible to refute. I think the reason Stafford should have got in is because Stafford answered the question of how good could the Lions be if Stafford stayed healthy- very good. The Lions were 5-11 last year, I think, and Stafford finally stayed healthy and they're going to the playoffs at 10-6 or 11-5, probably 11-5 since GB will be resting.

 

But either QB is having a great season, and I would have very little problem if Romo had got in and Stafford was first alternate. Eli getting in, to me, is not right, not with the season he's having. Yes it's good, but like I said, I'd take Newton's season over Eli's, not even counting the fact that Newton is a rookie and Eli is a veteran that has won a SB.

 

So maybe my lineup would be more like:

 

Rodgers > Brees > Stafford = Romo > Newton > Eli.

 

Cam should not be first alternate, IMO. He's had a fantastic rookie season, but the Pro Bowl shouldn't give someone extra credit because they're a rookie. He should be 2nd alternate behind Stafford and Romo, (one of those two being the #3 QB and the other one being alternate #1).

Edited December 29, 2011 by Thanatos19

[oochymp 2,393]

Take a look at these three sets of stats and tell me if you can actually separate them out:

 

 

QB1: 317/485 (65.4%) for 3,895 yards (8.0 ypa) 29 tds and 9 ints

QB2: 335/556 (60.3%) for 4,587 yards (8.3 ypa) 26 tds and 16 ints

QB3: 385/604 (63.7%) for 4,518 yards (7.5 ypa) 36 tds and 14 ints

 

no matter how you rank them, you're really splitting hairs to do it

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if anyone is curious, QB1 is Tony Romo, QB2 is Eli Manning, and QB3 is Matt Stafford

Edited December 29, 2011 by oochymp

[Thanatos 2,847]

Take a look at these three sets of stats and tell me if you can actually separate them out:

 

 

QB1: 317/485 (65.4%) for 3,895 yards (8.0 ypa) 29 tds and 9 ints

QB2: 335/556 (60.3%) for 4,587 yards (8.3 ypa) 26 tds and 16 ints

QB3: 385/604 (63.7%) for 4,518 yards (7.5 ypa) 36 tds and 14 ints

 

no matter how you rank them, you're really splitting hairs to do it

 

And the 26/16 with a 60% rate vs 63.7 and 65.4 is clearly the worse QB of the 3. It's not a big difference, I'll grant you, but it is beyond a minor difference. Eli is having a great year, but he's not top 3 in the NFC.

[RazorStar 4,025]

Eli still has the highest YPA though.

[badgers 380]

lol thinking Stafford is better than Romo/Eli. If Stafford didn't have Megatron, his numbers wouldn't be anywhere close to where they are right now. I can't count the number of times he has thrown the ball up for grabs and Megatron has bailed him out.

 

Every quarterback suffers without their best target.

 

Even Aaron Rodgers. Without Greg Jennings we couldn't move the ball through the air worth a shit against KC. And we have 4 other awesome targets for him.

 

Take Jennings from Rodgers, Graham from Brees, Bryant from Romo, Cruz/Nicks from Manning, and it'd all be the same thing..

 

Plus who does Detroit have except Megatron? Nate Burleson? Yeah he's okay but he's nowhere near the secondary target any of the other NFC PB QB's have. And after that there's nobody. Brandon Pettigrew is probably the worst TE out of Finley, Graham, Witten, and Ballard. So in a sense Stafford HAS to throw it up for Megatron. He can't throw it up for anybody else. He doesn't have the luxury of having a bounty of targets like Rodgers, Romo, Brees, or Manning.

 

You just hate the Lions and take every opportunity you can to hate on them. It's okay. I do the same thing with the Vikings.