Which Brothers are Better ?

[Omerta+ 1,206]

This debate came up at work today as which were better between I and a cowboys fan who usually talk sports to pass the time. He believes the Ryans are better. To his credit I can understand his points, both are defensive geniuses and have a family lineage that breeds success. However to mine both coaches took a team that was 5 wins or less and turned them into playoff contenders the very next year and have a stronger chance for continuity in success. So which ones are better ?

[SteVo+ 3,702]

This is a question? The Harbaugh brothers each came within a game of a Super Bowl last year. The Ryan brothers...well, they get a lot of media. Gotta give 'em credit for that.

[rzb+ 367]

Not to take away from the debate but we're comparing two head coaches against a head coach and a defensive coordinator. It's hard for me not to weight that in heavily, so Harbaugh wins.

[oochymp 2,393]

let's see, two great defensive coordinators (one a decent head coach, the other who knows how he'd do) vs. two very good head coaches, not much of a question to me

[Milla4Prez63 678]

I'm not sure how you can even make a case for the Ryans.

[BwareDWare94 723]

Rex and Rob have been successful for a very long time. I pick the Harbaughs, too, but they both have glaring weaknesses, John's needs to be addressed this year and Jim's will come back to haunt him if he doesn't take care of it within the next two.

 

John's weakness: He won't get rid Cam Cameron. This is the last year Cam gets a chance. If he fucks up again, it sounds like John either fires him or gets fired along with him.

 

Jim's weakness: He won't get rid of Alex Smith. This isn't for lack of effort, but at some point that defense won't be as stellar as it was last year and Smith won't get the job done. Jim has to either go find a QB or start the Kaepernick era soon enough that they can have one down season before they're successful again.

[Maverick 791]

Bad comparison to make.

[oochymp 2,393]

Jim's weakness: He won't get rid of Alex Smith. This isn't for lack of effort, but at some point that defense won't be as stellar as it was last year and Smith won't get the job done. Jim has to either go find a QB or start the Kaepernick era soon enough that they can have one down season before they're successful again.

you can't say it's for lack of trying, he's brought in Kaepernick, but it's definitely smart to leave a rookie on the bench if you've got a guy who can get you to 13-3 (even if it is as a game manager) and he tried to bring in Manning this offseason, I think he realizes that Smith is no more than a serviceable starter, but it's tough to find something better than that

[seanbrock 1,684]

This is a dumb poll. I should have pick the Ryan's just to troll haha

[SteVo+ 3,702]

This is a dumb poll. I should have pick the Ryan's just to troll haha

 

Apparently NYGFH beat you to it.

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

Rex Ryans success with the defensive side of the ball is superb, and I could even put up an argument that his ability to coach an offensive ground game is great. But he does struggle on the offensive side a little, be it the players he has as his puzzle pieces or whatever it is.

 

There really isn't room for a poll here though I don't think. Jim and John are probably two of the top 5 best coaches in the league right now. No one does it like they do. They are completely hands on with their players, and they control both side of the ball really well. Not to mention their amazing knowledge for the game of football. I think this is no contest.

[badgers 380]

The Ryan brothers are better at being unsightly and overweight.

 

The Harbaugh brothers are better at everything else.

Edited July 28, 2012 by badgers

[JetsFan4Life 542]

let's see, two great defensive coordinators (one a decent head coach, the other who knows how he'd do) vs. two very good head coaches, not much of a question to me

 

Now before I get started, Harbaugh's all the way....BUT my reason for saying this is because I have not seen anything really from Rob Ryan that justifies him in the league of the other three guys (especially since he's not even a HC but I honestly don't even think he's THAT great of a coordinator).

 

My question is why is Rex Ryan a decent coach but the Harbaugh's are VERY good? All three made it to their conference championship games in their first season and lost. Rex Ryan did it again in his second season too (something of course Jim could do as he's only had one year). Not to mention Rex Ryan is pretty much a mastermind when it comes to the defensive side of the ball.

 

Now all these guys have had pretty dam good defenses and to be honest none have had great quarterbacks but I'd argue Rex has had the worst and has also had a terrible OC (although so has John).

 

I think Rex Ryan is on the Harbaugh's levels as far as coaching for now or at least I don't see what makes him decent and the other two very good...

[RANGA+ 1,210]

People actually voted for Rex and Rob??

 

[oochymp 2,393]

Now before I get started, Harbaugh's all the way....BUT my reason for saying this is because I have not seen anything really from Rob Ryan that justifies him in the league of the other three guys (especially since he's not even a HC but I honestly don't even think he's THAT great of a coordinator).

 

My question is why is Rex Ryan a decent coach but the Harbaugh's are VERY good? All three made it to their conference championship games in their first season and lost. Rex Ryan did it again in his second season too (something of course Jim could do as he's only had one year). Not to mention Rex Ryan is pretty much a mastermind when it comes to the defensive side of the ball.

 

Now all these guys have had pretty dam good defenses and to be honest none have had great quarterbacks but I'd argue Rex has had the worst and has also had a terrible OC (although so has John).

 

I think Rex Ryan is on the Harbaugh's levels as far as coaching for now or at least I don't see what makes him decent and the other two very good...

I may be off on this, but the Jets lockerroom seems to be in perpetual turmoil, Rex just doesn't seem to have enough control over the team, add to that a very mediocre offense in spite of some really good players and I just can't consider him anything other than a decent head coach, as I said he's a great DC, but a lot of great coordinators don't cut it as head coaches, the Harbaugh's on the other hand both have their teams playing a lot better than their pieces, and that to me is what makes for a very good head coach

[JetsFan4Life 542]

I may be off on this, but the Jets lockerroom seems to be in perpetual turmoil, Rex just doesn't seem to have enough control over the team, add to that a very mediocre offense in spite of some really good players and I just can't consider him anything other than a decent head coach, as I said he's a great DC, but a lot of great coordinators don't cut it as head coaches, the Harbaugh's on the other hand both have their teams playing a lot better than their pieces, and that to me is what makes for a very good head coach

 

I think the Jets were also playing a lot better then their pieces. As individuals on defense they really weren't all that special but as a team they were great. People like Bart Scott really aren't that good but everything worked together. Also you look at the playoff games such as 2009 when Shonne Greene BEASTED against the Chargers and Mark Sanchez actually looking like a true NFL QB in playoff games...Ryan has his guys playing a lot better then they are too.

 

And locker room commotion happens everywhere I'm sure but you ever think it might be a tad bit overblown because of the market the Jets are in compared to the coverage a team like Baltimore or San Francisco gets? And I'll admit some of that is brought on by Rex himself but that doesn't alter the product he's put out on the field.

 

Jim has only had ONE year I think we should wait and see if it was just a shot in the dark or if the 49ers are for real before we call him a GREAT NFL coach don't you think?

 

But yeah decent I don't know. Maybe it's my bias as a Jets fan but he's done more as a coach for this organization than anyone else has come close to since Bill Parcells in my opinion.

Edited August 18, 2012 by JetsFan4Life

[Omerta+ 1,206]

the Harbaugh's on the other hand both have their teams playing a lot better than their pieces, and that to me is what makes for a very good head coach

 

REally ? Not saying it was not a good comment because it was a very lucid statement. That being said I think you are right on about Jim, but I think John is squandering his a bit.

[oochymp 2,393]

I think the Jets were also playing a lot better then their pieces. As individuals on defense they really weren't all that special but as a team they were great. People like Bart Scott really aren't that good but everything worked together. Also you look at the playoff games such as 2009 when Shonne Greene BEASTED against the Chargers and Mark Sanchez actually looking like a true NFL QB in playoff games...Ryan has his guys playing a lot better then they are too.

 

And locker room commotion happens everywhere I'm sure but you ever think it might be a tad bit overblown because of the market the Jets are in compared to the coverage a team like Baltimore or San Francisco gets? And I'll admit some of that is brought on by Rex himself but that doesn't alter the product he's put out on the field.

 

Jim has only had ONE year I think we should wait and see if it was just a shot in the dark or if the 49ers are for real before we call him a GREAT NFL coach don't you think?

 

But yeah decent I don't know. Maybe it's my bias as a Jets fan but he's done more as a coach for this organization than anyone else has come close to since Bill Parcells in my opinion.

I may be wrong (and I don't feel like looking through my previous posts) but I don't believe I've called either of them 'Great' NFL coaches, just 'very good' I think Greene is a better back than he gets credit for and you've got some of the best olinemen in the league, that alone should give you a very good offense, but it's just never there

 

REally ? Not saying it was not a good comment because it was a very lucid statement. That being said I think you are right on about Jim, but I think John is squandering his a bit.

where do you think John is squandering the Ravens' talent? he's got aging playmakers on defense that he's still turning into one of the best defenses in the league then he's got a great running back surrounded by mediocrity on offense and he consistently turns them into a solid offense, you certainly see more of the Ravens than I do, so I could be completely off, but from what I see his teams have consistently been better than the sum of the parts

[JetsFan4Life 542]

I may be wrong (and I don't feel like looking through my previous posts) but I don't believe I've called either of them 'Great' NFL coaches, just 'very good' I think Greene is a better back than he gets credit for and you've got some of the best olinemen in the league, that alone should give you a very good offense, but it's just never there

 

 

You did indeed call them very good which I would take as about two rungs up from decent. And I'm not denying that they're both very good I'm just not sure why Ryan isn't there. I guess we just agree to disagree on that.

 

As for the other parts of your post I really don't see what you mean by Greene being better than he gets credit. Jets fans have been waiting for him to do what he did in the 2009 playoffs vs. the Chargers on a consistent basis and he hasn't come close. This year is pretty much his last shot at the starting running back position.

 

And I can't deny the offensive line comment but last season we also had a couple of the worst in Slauson and Hunter (and this upcoming season as well).

[Dutch 874]

where do you think John is squandering the Ravens' talent? he's got aging playmakers on defense that he's still turning into one of the best defenses in the league then he's got a great running back surrounded by mediocrity on offense and he consistently turns them into a solid offense, you certainly see more of the Ravens than I do, so I could be completely off, but from what I see his teams have consistently been better than the sum of the parts

 

I wouldn't necessarily say that. It's not like it's a new young fresh team that are inexperienced. The Ravens defense was already set in place. The Ravens were known for having a great defense for yeeears now. They really have the same core of star members that hold that team together; players that are already down with the program. They just established continuity which isn't hard to do when you have veteran experienced players like the Ravens have. Same thing with the Steelers when Bill Cowher retired.

[oochymp 2,393]

You did indeed call them very good which I would take as about two rungs up from decent. And I'm not denying that they're both very good I'm just not sure why Ryan isn't there. I guess we just agree to disagree on that.

 

As for the other parts of your post I really don't see what you mean by Greene being better than he gets credit. Jets fans have been waiting for him to do what he did in the 2009 playoffs vs. the Chargers on a consistent basis and he hasn't come close. This year is pretty much his last shot at the starting running back position.

 

And I can't deny the offensive line comment but last season we also had a couple of the worst in Slauson and Hunter (and this upcoming season as well).

we may need to agree to disagree on Ryan, I still think he's at least a good couple notches below both Harbaughs for the reasons I've already explained

 

as for Greene, most people seem to consider him one of the worst starting RBs in the league, I'd put him somewhere around the middle, certainly not top ten but I could see him in the top 15, certainly top 20, maybe the general perception of him is better than I thought, but it seems like most people think you could plug anyone in there and get a better performance

 

I wouldn't necessarily say that. It's not like it's a new young fresh team that are inexperienced. The Ravens defense was already set in place. The Ravens were known for having a great defense for yeeears now. They really have the same core of star members that hold that team together; players that are already down with the program. They just established continuity which isn't hard to do when you have veteran experienced players like the Ravens have. Same thing with the Steelers when Bill Cowher retired.

they do have a solid core, but you would expect players like Ed Reed and Ray Lewis to start tailing off now that they're getting older, maybe it speaks more to the abilities of those two players, but it's not easy to keep up the same performance level as a team for this long, and I will grant that the Ravens' front office has done a very good job of keeping a steady infusion of young talent, but getting those guys to buy into the system presents challenges of its own