Your opinion of the replacement refs?

[AllYouNeedIsLovie 377]

I just want to point out that I think the immature outrage from "professional" NFL players on Twitter is almost as embarrassing as the call itself.

 

Agreed. I can't believe no one has mentioned it. All the ESPN idiots are too busy bashing the refs because this called happened to the beloved Packers.

 

Make that 3 games in a row where the Packers have made an excuse for losing a game. I HATE those losers and I hope the attitude that they have bites them in the ass and the team blows up. I honestly wouldn't even mind seeing the Saints beat them next week. Can't wait to hear their excuse for that one. Maybe it'll be that the Saints set up a new bounty.

[Phins4life 271]

The only reason I'm fine with this because the regular refs fuck up games too.

 

But to this extent? Come on, now. The call that decided the game itself was beyond comprehension, but I think it has even more to do with the buildup to this point. Everyone knew the replacements would not be as good as the other guys, but this is the point where you have to snatch the crutches out from under their arms and cry foul. We can't keep giving them excuses to be THIS bad. Everybody's team has been robbed and helped by the old refs, but their overall knowledge of the game and their grasp of the necessary tempo makes them far better than the ones we are seeing.

 

The level of ineptitude is unacceptable on a professional sports stage like this. These guys can't get numbers right (didn't know GB had a #25). They can't get rules right (extra timeouts, phantom yardage). And I've already seen a handful of times they call it on the wrong team, point in the wrong direction, lose track of the down, etc. The mistakes made by the locked out refs look like child's play by comparison.

[Phins4life 271]

On another note, would it really be a huge deal to make penalties reviewable on scoring plays only? It could prevent calls like this one in the future.

[oochymp 2,393]

if nothing else is coming out of the fiasco last night, at least people are finally talking about some of the issues that are separating the NFL and the refs in the negotiations. Here's part of a Peter King article:

 

 

One of the emerging and major reasons why a deal has been so elusive, according to the source, is that the NFL is insisting on getting some control of the officials back that it has ceded in past negotiations with the NFLRA. This includes the league's desire to have three seven-man officiating crews in reserve with the ability to replace -- either for a game or longer -- underperforming current officials.Another source with knowledge of the locked-out officials' position said Tuesday that the NFL would not guarantee that they would work at least 15 games in a regular season.

 

Currently, other than due to injury, an official that starts a season works the full season. The officials source said that this is the main crux of what the NFL is trying to do in these negotiations: wrest back control of the officials' performance week to week in an NFL season. I've been told that the NFL is insisting on being able to make in-season changes to crews based solely on performance of individual officials.

 

There's also still the matter of the league trying to roll back the officials' pension. Over the last five years, the league has contributed, on average, about $5.3 million per year to the officials' pension plan. The league, in keeping with the current cost-cutting practice of corporations across America, no longer wants to guarantee how much each official would get in retirement, but rather tie the contributions to a 401(k)-type pension. That would save the league about $3.3 million per year.

 

Many would say that giving part-time officials a pension contribution of $12,500 per year is sufficient. But the locked-out officials look at it this way: The league is more prosperous than it ever has been, and more profitable than it ever has been. What is the justification for cutting pensions by 60 percent in a booming football economy?

 

Source: Sports Illustrated

I definitely side with the league on the first point, but I don't see why the NFL can't bend on the pensions and maybe even guarantee the refs pay for 15 games whether they're chosen to ref or not, because let's be honest, the refs don't really want a guarantee that they'll work 15 regular season games, they just want to get paid for 15 games and we all know the NFL has the money.

[Eefluxx 113]

http://deadspin.com/5946112/the-lingerie-football-league-announces-that-it-fired-a-couple-crews-which-apparently-are-now-officiating-in-the-nfl-because-of-incompetence

[Phins4life 271]

if nothing else is coming out of the fiasco last night, at least people are finally talking about some of the issues that are separating the NFL and the refs in the negotiations. Here's part of a Peter King article:

 

 

 

I definitely side with the league on the first point, but I don't see why the NFL can't bend on the pensions and maybe even guarantee the refs pay for 15 games whether they're chosen to ref or not, because let's be honest, the refs don't really want a guarantee that they'll work 15 regular season games, they just want to get paid for 15 games and we all know the NFL has the money.

 

See, I'm torn on the pension stance, on the grounds that if full-time NFL employees aren't getting pensions, then why should the part-time refs? However, two things that keep me from completely leaning in the NFL's favor on this are...

 

1)Realistically, owners wipe their asses with the kind of chump change being demanded by a relatively small number of guys. Bending here won't mean they've been broken.

 

2)Most of the full-time NFL employees don't submit themselves to the high-speed dangers awaiting the refs on any given Sunday, making that chump change look even sillier to fight over.

 

Either way, one of these parties (ideally both) will man up soon.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Is it really bad if this game we love so much had full-time officials? I don't think so... And that's what the NFLRA wants. It's a big step, sure... but one I think the league needs.

[Phins4life 271]

Is it really bad if this game we love so much had full-time officials? I don't think so... And that's what the NFLRA wants. It's a big step, sure... but one I think the league needs.

 

If that happens, though, then the numbers go up quite a bit more for each guy's salary, don't they? I'm not saying I disagree with you. it's a professional organization that could capitalize on the off-season with top-notch seminars and the like to make sure they stay their best.

 

I just think the NFL is more likely to budge on 30-40K/year in pension per ref than they are to throw in twice the salary already being requested (complete guess here). After all, these guys would be giving up their other incomes permanently.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

You're probably right, although like you, I am unsure of the actual numbers so it's hard to say for sure.

 

Every front office member, every coach, every player... They put their heart and souls into football. They dedicate themselves and sacrifice things those of us on the outside deem as important. I like the idea of having full time refs who can dedicate as much time into their craft as those they are officiating.

[Phins4life 271]

You're probably right, although like you, I am unsure of the actual numbers so it's hard to say for sure.

 

Every front office member, every coach, every player... They put their heart and souls into football. They dedicate themselves and sacrifice things those of us on the outside deem as important. I like the idea of having full time refs who can dedicate as much time into their craft as those they are officiating.

 

No disagreement here. The MLB has them. The NBA has them. The NFL should probably have them.

[oochymp 2,393]

See, I'm torn on the pension stance, on the grounds that if full-time NFL employees aren't getting pensions, then why should the part-time refs? However, two things that keep me from completely leaning in the NFL's favor on this are...

 

1)Realistically, owners wipe their asses with the kind of chump change being demanded by a relatively small number of guys. Bending here won't mean they've been broken.

 

2)Most of the full-time NFL employees don't submit themselves to the high-speed dangers awaiting the refs on any given Sunday, making that chump change look even sillier to fight over.

 

Either way, one of these parties (ideally both) will man up soon.

when I posted that I hadn't read that most NFL employees don't have full pensions, with that in mind I take no issue with the league trying to cut that down

 

No disagreement here. The MLB has them. The NBA has them. The NFL should probably have them.

here's the issue I have with that logic: looking at the regular season, MLB plays 2430 games over 6 months, NBA plays 1230 games over 6-7 months, NFL plays 256 games over 4 months, during their respective seasons MLB and NBA refs have games every day, NFL refs have one per week. My point isn't so much that NFL refs do less work, rather I'm trying to say that they have a lot more time to have a normal job, and many of them do have fairly lucrative normal jobs, I know Hochuli is an attorney in Arizona and I've heard one of the regular refs is a surgeon, if you're going to make NFL refs full time you have to convince all of them to leave their normal jobs or at least cut back on them. My understanding was that the NFL wanted to make the refs full time but a lot of the refs don't want to leave their real jobs. I could be wrong on that, and if I am please point me to something giving a clearer explanation of what the two sides are arguing for, because there really has been a disappointing dearth of real information on the dispute.

[BucD+ 648]

@realfreemancbs:

One source estimates that NFL has saved $3.5 million so far this year with use of replacement officials.

 

EDIT

 

@AlbertBreer:

The NFL and NFLRA have reached an agreement on the issue of backup crews. Will have a developmental program. Pension remains an issue.

 

I'm told NFLRA offered short-term grandfathering as a concession, asked for ratification bonus. Non-starter for NFL. So pension's the issue.

 

NFL wanted 21 full-time officials added. Compromise agreed on: 21 guys in developmental program, work w/crews during week, promoted on merit

 

Solving the retirement plan has been the issue all along. So it's a significant hurdle. NFL brought benefits experts to Tuesday's meeting.

 

At least they're putting in time -- I'm told that the NFL/NFLRA negotiations yesterday encompassed about 17.5 hours. More expected today.

Edited September 26, 2012 by BucD

[baltimoreravens 19]

@AdamSchefter

There is "an agreement in principle at hand" per @mortreport that means the sides are "just about finished with the agreement in principle."

 

@AdamSchefter

As @mortreport is reporting, an agreement between NFL and NFLRA is at hand and both sides will work to have officials working this weekend.

Edited September 26, 2012 by baltimoreravens

[Phins4life 271]

This weekend?? Wow. The way John Clayton put it, it sounded like the process itself would last until at least next week, even if an agreement were reached today or tomorrow. It's good to see the fire was finally lit under their asses.

[Packers Dynasty 2010 116]

I don't see how anybody could defend the replacement refs. Even if the regular refs made stupid calls once in a while, these replacement refs lack basic knowledge of the game at times. So many stupid calls, like giving extra timeouts or losing track of down. Or sometimes they take forever to throw a flag...

 

I hope these reports are true and that a deal is done within a week.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Packers Dynasty 2010

[baltimoreravens 19]

‏@SportsCenter

Source tells @mortreport that if a deal between NFL & NFLRA gets done today, there are referees ready to go for Thursday night's game.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

A mere few days after the replacements alter the result of a game, a deal is in place to bring back the real refs.

 

You are welcome, 30 other teams in the NFL.

[rzb+ 367]

If the officials are going to return, it shouldn't be mid-week. It isn't fair to the Thursday game.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

If the officials are going to return, it shouldn't be mid-week. It isn't fair to the Thursday game.

 

If the deal gets done soon enough.. There is a crew ready to go tomorrow night. Ed Hochuli has been running a "training camp" for the officials... They have all had their physicals and are ready to work. Pen just needs to meet paper.

 

But I agree with you that if the deal doesn't get done until, let's say... Friday, that we should keep the replacements for the full week.

[Dutch 874]

If the deal gets done soon enough.. There is a crew ready to go tomorrow night. Ed Hochuli has been running a "training camp" for the officials... They have all had their physicals and are ready to work. Pen just needs to meet paper.

 

But I agree with you that if the deal doesn't get done until, let's say... Friday, that we should keep the replacements for the full week.

 

 

It sucks that you guys had to get burnt out of a game in order for this to happen... but a great team in the NFC with 1 less win is cool in my book :grinno:

[Phins4life 271]

It sucks that you guys had to get burnt out of a game in order for this to happen... but a great team in the NFC with 1 less win is cool in my book :grinno:

 

You would. Your boys need it :grinno: .

[Dutch 874]

You would. Your boys need it :grinno: .

 

 

[Bay 2,003]

My link

Ref who ruled Golden Tate touchdown still thinks it was the right call

 

Lance Easley, the replacement side judge who ruled that Seahawks receiver Golden Tateand Packers defensive back M.D. Jenningssimultaneously possessed the final pass of the game on Monday night — handing Seattle an undeserved win — stands by his call."It was the correct call," Easley told TMZ. "I didn't do anything wrong."

 

[Omerta+ 1,206]

My link

Ref who ruled Golden Tate touchdown still thinks it was the right call

 

 

 

I still think I have a hot with Bar Refaeli but that does not mean it is true.

 

 

[Phins4life 271]

I still think I have a hot with Bar Refaeli but that does not mean it is true.

 

 

 

So hot. :allhail: