What Are Your Realistic Expectations For Your Team?

[KempBolt 498]

as a charger fan and how we just got a new coaching staff i think were go 9-7 and taking the wild card

 

I doubt that 9-7 is going to earn a WC spot in the AFC this year.

[KempBolt 498]

Denver lead the league in sacks with 54, miller had 18.5, dumervil had 10.5 so there were 25 sacks picked up by other players so we do have more the dumervil. At the same time no one who doesn't have the all22 film will believe this but there isn't going to be much drop off from dumervil to Ayers who quietly had a good season last year and will help elevate us to the number 1 run defense then throw in one of the better pass rushing DT in this last draft and we will get to the 50's in sacks again this year

 

Here's the problem in my eyes- once you guys got in the playoffs and had to face a decent line that had time to gameplan thoroughly, your pass rush was neutralized. And that seemed to be because the Ravens felt comfortable enough singling up everyone else and honing in on Von. And no one else was winning their one-on-one match ups so it worked. And now you lose your 2nd best rusher (who, while overrated, was still a respectable pass rusher) and things are definitely going to be just as good? Seems a little pie in the sky to me.

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

Here's the problem in my eyes- once you guys got in the playoffs and had to face a decent line that had time to gameplan thoroughly, your pass rush was neutralized. And that seemed to be because the Ravens felt comfortable enough singling up everyone else and honing in on Von. And no one else was winning their one-on-one match ups so it worked. And now you lose your 2nd best rusher (who, while overrated, was still a respectable pass rusher) and things are definitely going to be just as good? Seems a little pie in the sky to me.

 

Read some his earlier posts. He thinks the Broncos are untouchable. He seems to have decent knowledge, it's just his homer meter is off the charts.

[KempBolt 498]

No I don't think he'll lean on the running game, but I don't think Alex Smith will necessarily be the focal point either. Charles is an absolute stud, and Andy is gonna get him involved in the passing game out of the backfield, in motion, etc... I think Charles will be the main character in this offense, albeit possibly not in the traditional sense that you would think a RB would be.

 

Charles will be used to take pressure off of Smith and free things up in the passing game as well, so I do think that Smith CAN succeed in this offense. I don't know that he necessarily will though, as I've never really been a big fan of his. Now that he's in KC though, I'm all for him. Go Alex Smith. I'm more hoping he'll take care of business than expecting though. If his turnaround in SF wasn't completely scheme based and the product of the other ten guys around him, great. If that was a large part of it though, it's not like he's surrounded by a bunch of slouches in KC, so I'm pretty certain that this team can be successful with him under center. Like I said earlier though, it's the Chiefs, so I'm also pretty certain that it could all fall apart in a moment, too.

 

I could see Reid running an offense that features Charles the way that the Bills have done with Spiller from time to time. I agree that Smith is surrounded by talent- it's just that that hasn't been enough for KC to this point. I've always been scared of the idea of KC's roster with a difference maker under center. But I don't believe you have one. If I was a Chiefs fan, I would be worried about Smith keeping my team mired in mediocrity with 8-8 and 9-7 records (i.e. not good enough for the playoffs, but not bad enough to snag a top QB prospect).

[oochymp 2,393]

He's a good pass rusher, but that's about it. Against the run he's a major liability and he harmed us more than he helped in the playoffs. If there was a way to keep him for a lower amount of money, I would have been fine with that, teams need pass rushers. However, the money he got guaranteed from the agent debacle would have been about what we should be paying him yearly, so obviously we couldn't keep him around after that.

all you had to do was buy his agent a new fax machine

[AL_Royalty 489]

I could see Reid running an offense that features Charles the way that the Bills have done with Spiller from time to time. I agree that Smith is surrounded by talent- it's just that that hasn't been enough for KC to this point. I've always been scared of the idea of KC's roster with a difference maker under center. But I don't believe you have one. If I was a Chiefs fan, I would be worried about Smith keeping my team mired in mediocrity with 8-8 and 9-7 records (i.e. not good enough for the playoffs, but not bad enough to snag a top QB prospect).

Cassel got us to the playoffs, and we didn't have as much talent that season as we do now. The next year, the killer combo of Cassel and Tyler Palko got us within one win of a playoff birth. You honestly don't think that Smith is better than the Tyler Palko/Matt Cassel fail sandwich? I think you might be short-changing Smith if that's the case.

[KempBolt 498]

Cassel got us to the playoffs, and we didn't have as much talent that season as we do now. The next year, the killer combo of Cassel and Tyler Palko got us within one win of a playoff birth. You honestly don't think that Smith is better than the Tyler Palko/Matt Cassel fail sandwich? I think you might be short-changing Smith if that's the case.

 

I think KC fans felt about Cassel in 2009 the same way they feel about Smith now. And I think that Smith may struggle in much the same way now that he's out of the context in which he was successful. It's obviously laughable to compare the two now, after 4 years of garbage play from Matt- but I recall the optimism when he was fresh from the 2008 season in NE.

[Barracuda 629]

[AL_Royalty 489]

I think KC fans felt about Cassel in 2009 the same way they feel about Smith now. And I think that Smith may struggle in much the same way now that he's out of the context in which he was successful. It's obviously laughable to compare the two now, after 4 years of garbage play from Matt- but I recall the optimism when he was fresh from the 2008 season in NE.

In 2009, no one was optimistic about Cassel. Most Chiefs fans were pretty skeptical, and then promptly pissed. On top of that, the team that Cassel inherited that year was quite a bit different than this one. Charles was a rookie, Berry was a freshman, as was Houston, Hali was still a DE, Todd Haley was getting set to start his first season as a head coach, Bowe was still a "trouble maker," Benny Sapp was getting minutes, Dontari Poe was about to graduate high school, the O-line was dreadful, Facebook was still living in the shadow of Myspace, and this new thing called "Twitter" was just about to come out.

 

Pinochio is a real little boy now. Times have changed. Is Alex Smith the new Joe Montana? No, but he doesn't have to be. This team is good enough that as long as he doesn't LOSE the games and against tough teams give us a chance to win them, we're in really good shape. Cassel had 17 turnovers in his first 7 games or something like that. We were hanging with the Falcons until Matt Cassel went all Matt Cassel all over the place. They lost to the SB champs by 3 in a game where they turned the ball over 4 times. They turned the ball over three times against the Colts and lost by a TD, they lost to the Steelers by 3, and the first time they played Peyton—before they had completely given up on the season—they lost by a TD as well. There is talent on this roster, and a coach who knows how to get his teams to the playoffs, conference title games, and even a super bowl once—lolSissy McNabb. Smith doesn't have to be great. He just has to not suck.

Edited June 12, 2013 by B-isforBowe

[KempBolt 498]

In 2009, no one was optimistic about Cassel. Most Chiefs fans were pretty skeptical, and then promptly pissed. On top of that, the team that Cassel inherited that year was quite a bit different than this one. Charles was a rookie, Berry was a freshman, as was Houston, Hali was still a DE, Todd Haley was getting set to start his first season as a head coach, Bowe was still a "trouble maker," Benny Sapp was getting minutes, Dontari Poe was about to graduate high school, the O-line was dreadful, Facebook was still living in the shadow of Myspace, and this new thing called "Twitter" was just about to come out.

 

Pinochio is a real little boy now. Times have changed. Is Alex Smith the new Joe Montana? No, but he doesn't have to be. This team is good enough that as long as he doesn't LOSE the games and against tough teams give us a chance to win them, we're in really good shape. Cassel had 17 turnovers in his first 7 games or something like that. We were hanging with the Falcons until Matt Cassel went all Matt Cassel all over the place. They lost to the SB champs by 3 in a game where they turned the ball over 4 times. They turned the ball over three times against the Colts and lost by a TD, they lost to the Steelers by 3, and the first time they played Peyton—before they had completely given up on the season—they lost by a TD as well. There is talent on this roster, and a coach who knows how to get his teams to the playoffs, conference title games, and even a super bowl once—lolSissy McNabb. Smith doesn't have to be great. He just has to not suck.

 

I guess I should say that most of the Chiefs fans I heard from on the topic were similarly optimistic about Cassel. Do you really not see any parallels? One good year on a really good team with an excellent supporting cast in a unique offensive context? Doesn't ring any bells?

[SolomonGrundy 10]

Here's the problem in my eyes- once you guys got in the playoffs and had to face a decent line that had time to gameplan thoroughly, your pass rush was neutralized. And that seemed to be because the Ravens felt comfortable enough singling up everyone else and honing in on Von. And no one else was winning their one-on-one match ups so it worked. And now you lose your 2nd best rusher (who, while overrated, was still a respectable pass rusher) and things are definitely going to be just as good? Seems a little pie in the sky to me.

 

The problem there was that Dumervil couldn't do anything against Bryant McKinnie if I'm not mistaken. And none of our DTs are really pass rushers. Banaan and Unrein don't scare you at all. Wolfe as a rookie was pretty good, but far from a polished product. Vickerson is ok, not great. Bringing in Knighton whom I expect will be similar to Vickerson will improve on Banaan/Unrein. Sly Williams is already a better pass rusher than both of them and he's only going to get stronger. If he can collapse some pockets he'll be a huge player for us. Also Nate Irving is going to be our MLB and unlike Keith Brooking he's actually a pretty good blitzer. He has some college experience at DE and it shows. He's great at knifing through the o-line. With Knighton and Vickerson being so big he can find a lot of room to run. Woodyard also took a huge step forward as a blitzer last year as well. Losing Dumervil is tough, but his production can be replaced by a committee and I think as a whole we'll be stronger because of it.

 

And I really doubt Von Miller has reached his ceiling yet. He has been putting up some incredible numbers considering he's rushing the passer way less than Watt and Smith.

[KempBolt 498]

The problem there was that Dumervil couldn't do anything against Bryant McKinnie if I'm not mistaken. And none of our DTs are really pass rushers. Banaan and Unrein don't scare you at all. Wolfe as a rookie was pretty good, but far from a polished product. Vickerson is ok, not great. Bringing in Knighton whom I expect will be similar to Vickerson will improve on Banaan/Unrein. Sly Williams is already a better pass rusher than both of them and he's only going to get stronger. If he can collapse some pockets he'll be a huge player for us. Also Nate Irving is going to be our MLB and unlike Keith Brooking he's actually a pretty good blitzer. He has some college experience at DE and it shows. He's great at knifing through the o-line. With Knighton and Vickerson being so big he can find a lot of room to run. Woodyard also took a huge step forward as a blitzer last year as well. Losing Dumervil is tough, but his production can be replaced by a committee and I think as a whole we'll be stronger because of it.

 

And I really doubt Von Miller has reached his ceiling yet. He has been putting up some incredible numbers considering he's rushing the passer way less than Watt and Smith.

 

That's the part that I struggle with. Don't get me wrong, I think Denver will continue to have a very good pass rush this season. But better than last year? Better because Dumervil moved on? Not sure I buy that. I mean, if Dumervil was so ordinary in that regard that you're actually going to be a stronger team w/out him, why was Elway ready to pay him 8/season? And why did Ozzie, arguably one of the top 5 GM's in the game, jump at the chance to sign him? Something doesn't add up there.

[Thanatos 2,847]

I guess I should say that most of the Chiefs fans I heard from on the topic were similarly optimistic about Cassel. Do you really not see any parallels? One good year on a really good team with an excellent supporting cast in a unique offensive context? Doesn't ring any bells?

 

Smith had two good years, and his offensive supporting cast doesn't hold a candle to what Cassel had.

[KempBolt 498]

Smith had two good years, and his offensive supporting cast doesn't hold a candle to what Cassel had.

 

So had Cassel come back to NE for the 2009 season, you don't think he could have done more of the same of what we saw in 2008?

 

And you're saying that SF, with the best offensive line in the game, one of the league's most dominant defenses, plus Frank Gore, Vernon Davis, and Michael Crabtree on offense "doesn't hold a candle" to the 2008 Patriots roster?

 

I don't buy it.

[Archi545 2]

I expect...

 

An improved WR corps (), a competent secondary, another 12-13 win season, and a serious shot at the title.

 

 

With Tebow behind center......

 

 

 

 

OK, OK, OK,... I am sorry! Just couldn't resist.

[KempBolt 498]

I expect...

 

An improved WR corps (), a competent secondary, another 12-13 win season, and a serious shot at the title.

 

I don't think any of this is unrealistic except for the part about your WR corps. I can see Welker's loss being mitigated by Amendola, but after that I'm not seeing much at all. Who do you think steps up on the outside?

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

Before Kemp, I stated on this board that Alex Smith and Matt Cassel were similar in talent. I even had numbers and stats to say as much (compared their two best years, and Cassel's were actually better.)

 

The only reason I think Alex can do well in KC is Andy Reid. Otherwise I'd of expected another flop. But Reid knows how to get the best out of average QBs, and to me, that's all Alex Smith will ever be, average.

[Bay 2,003]

At least Alex Smith isn't immobile trash like Cassel.

[KempBolt 498]

Before Kemp, I stated on this board that Alex Smith and Matt Cassel were similar in talent. I even had numbers and stats to say as much (compared their two best years, and Cassel's were actually better.)

 

The only reason I think Alex can do well in KC is Andy Reid. Otherwise I'd of expected another flop. But Reid knows how to get the best out of average QBs, and to me, that's all Alex Smith will ever be, average.

 

We'll see. Reid is good with Quarterbacks, but he also doesn't like to use the running game very often and wants his offense to run through the signal caller and the passing game. Any time Smith has been asked to be the focal point, the results have been rather disastrous. So a lot will depend on what Reid asks him to do.

[AL_Royalty 489]

I guess I should say that most of the Chiefs fans I heard from on the topic were similarly optimistic about Cassel. Do you really not see any parallels? One good year on a really good team with an excellent supporting cast in a unique offensive context? Doesn't ring any bells?

 

 

So had Cassel come back to NE for the 2009 season, you don't think he could have done more of the same of what we saw in 2008?

 

And you're saying that SF, with the best offensive line in the game, one of the league's most dominant defenses, plus Frank Gore, Vernon Davis, and Michael Crabtree on offense "doesn't hold a candle" to the 2008 Patriots roster?

 

I don't buy it.

I'm just gonna handle both of those posts at once here. No, there aren't really as many similarities as you're proposing. Cassel had one flash in the pan season with a team that went 18-0 the previous season. They were one wing-and-a-prayer helmet catch away from going down as the best team in history, and no one had ever seen Cassel play before that, whereas Smith has started since day one and actually improved over the years. Cassel never matched his Patriots season. Those Pats could have had me playing QB and won 11 games. It was the best team that I have ever seen assembled. EVER. They were blowing teams out by 30+ almost every week.

 

That team set records on offense and defense. Brady threw for 50 with that team. He hasn't sniffed 50 since, so I would, in fact, agree that the 49ers team that Smith comes from doesn't hold a candle to what Cassel was working with in his Pats season. Also, even in Smith's worse years, he never played as bad as we've seen Cassel playing. Smith at his worst is about as good as Cassel at his best.

 

Before Kemp, I stated on this board that Alex Smith and Matt Cassel were similar in talent. I even had numbers and stats to say as much (compared their two best years, and Cassel's were actually better.)

 

The only reason I think Alex can do well in KC is Andy Reid. Otherwise I'd of expected another flop. But Reid knows how to get the best out of average QBs, and to me, that's all Alex Smith will ever be, average.

That's the thing though. Cassel DREAMS of being average. He's lucky to still be on an NFL roster. I agree that Smith is probably just average, but after Cassel and Palko, average isn't just a step up. It's a leap over Jack's beanstalk.

[KempBolt 498]

I'm just gonna handle both of those posts at once here. No, there aren't really as many similarities as you're proposing. Cassel had one flash in the pan season with a team that went 18-0 the previous season. They were one wing-and-a-prayer helmet catch away from going down as the best team in history, and no one had ever seen Cassel play before that, whereas Smith has started since day one and actually improved over the years. Cassel never matched his Patriots season. Those Pats could have had me playing QB and won 11 games. It was the best team that I have ever seen assembled. EVER. They were blowing teams out by 30+ almost every week.

 

That team set records on offense and defense. Brady threw for 50 with that team. He hasn't sniffed 50 since, so I would, in fact, agree that the 49ers team that Smith comes from doesn't hold a candle to what Cassel was working with in his Pats season. Also, even in Smith's worse years, he never played as bad as we've seen Cassel playing. Smith at his worst is about as good as Cassel at his best.

 

 

The 2007 Patriots roster and the 2012 49ers roster did essentially the same thing- made it to the SB and lost. Now people will think back on the undefeated season and argue that that team was infinitely better than the 2011/2012 version of the 49ers, but I would argue otherwise. A huge part of why that 2007 team was so good was Tom Brady. And we're excluding him from consideration, because right now we're talking about the supporting cast around the QB. To illustrate- you put Tom Brady on the 49ers in 2011 or 2012, and you're telling me they wouldn't have dominated the same way? With Crabtree and Davis and that offensive line and that running game and that defense? I think they would have stomped through their schedule just like the 2007 Patriots did and would more than likely have won a championship. The supporting casts are very comparable. Also comparable- to me- is that Smith has only had one good season (with that supporting cast) of QB play than can even be considered average by today's standards. And during that one good year, he was protected by the scheme in which he was placed. Which brings me to the point of my argument- I don't think he'll be successful if he's not protected in the same way.

 

But the great thing is that in 2 1/2 more months, we can watch him go out and settle this debate for us.

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

I can see Kroy or Massaquoi becoming a complimentary threat. But I would be less than confident with Osi as the primary pass rusher. But I forgot you guys let Vance Walker go- I thought he and Babineaux were pretty good at penetrating inside. So I guess I have some questions about your DL as a whole.

 

And Jackson is an upgrade, and Gonzo was still Gonzo a year ago. But what I was meaning to say is that they're at an age where drop offs can be drastic. No guarantee that they'll suck or anything; just saying it's what I would be worried about as an Atlanta fan.

 

But overall you guys have a good team.

 

Vance Walker hasn't started along side Babs in years. Corey Peters and Babs have been the starters with Jerry and Walker filling in here and there. No one has been that good there. Peters looked good a couple years ago, but that was about it.

[KempBolt 498]

Vance Walker hasn't started along side Babs in years. Corey Peters and Babs have been the starters with Jerry and Walker filling in here and there. No one has been that good there. Peters looked good a couple years ago, but that was about it.

 

I know Vance wasn't a starter, but he still looked like a good interior pass rusher to me last year.

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

Meh. Our defensive tackles were all pretty terrible. Babs made his plays here and there but that was pretty much it. Corey Peters was injured, and when he did play he was playing hurt. I like his prospects though. Peria Jerry looked a lot better under Nolan, but I'm not sure he's any more than an average defensive tackle at his best. Walker was simply a depth chart player. He didn't do anything great, but he did nothing terrible either. He was just there to help the other guys rest. What you saw when he was on field was more or less just the rest of the players on the field being tired out. Vance was never on the field unless he was fresh. There's a reason he was behind even Peria Jerry in the depth chart.

[True Blue 16]

NFCW Title, make NFCCG.