Looking Back At Megatron's Season

[butta54 371]

We all know this past season Calvin Johnson broke Jerry Rice's record for receiving yards in a season and came 36 yards short of the first 2000 yards receiving season (thanks to my Bears). But in the middle of this record season he only posted 5 receiving TDs all season. Now this isn't to take away from his season at all and I still believe he is the #1 WR hands down, but as we talk about Megatron being elite and among the greatest when it is all said and done...what are your thoughts on his historic season with yards with the bad thrown in (losing record, low TD)? Just keep in mind that Jerry Rice put up 15 TDs when he set the receiving yard record.

[seanbrock 1,684]

As big and fast and good as Megatron is, when you're the only real threat on offense defenses really lock down on you in the redzone. Jerry Rice is the GOAT and that's not even debatable, but he was very fortunate to have played with some great players and for some great coaches. When NFL defenses know where you're going with the football in the redzone everytime though it makes it just about impossible to punch it in.

 

When it's all said and done though, idk if there's anyone who's ever been as much of a problem in coverage as Calvin Johnson. The guy weighs as much as a lot of LB's and is one of the fastest guys on the field if not the fastest each and every Sunday. Even with Rice's stats and rings it'll be hard to deny Megatron's legacy. The man is as uncoverable as it gets.

[butta54 371]

Getting all the attention in coverage is what I thought of at first, but then you look at his season last year.....16 TDs and I'm sure people just didn't wake up this season and started to double (or TRIPLE) cover him.

[KempBolt 498]

The low TD total would be more of an indictment of his season in my eyes if the rest of the offense was scoring at a good pace. But they weren't. Stafford ranked 19th in TD's with a pedestrian total of 20, and the offense was 17th in points overall. Now of couse Megatron is culpible in that as a part of the offense, but I would definitely place the bulk of the blame on Stafford.

 

That said, more TD's are better than less and I would still place Rice's record season over Megatron's. So I guess I would say that Johnson's 2012 is solidly in the conversation for #2 all time.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

Rice may be the greatest receiver ever, but if I needed a receiver for one game that you absolutely had to win, could you pick anyone other than CJ? Moss might be right there with him and ahead of Rice as well.

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

Touchdowns in NO WAY effects how I look at Calvin Johnsons season. That was an all time great receiving season. The problem with Touchdowns is that they are so random. Johnson is a perfect example, you can have 10+ one season, and 5 or below the next. There's no way to predict them. You never know with touchdowns.

 

Let's also factor in that he was getting pretty much all of the defensive attention because there was no one else doing any damage on that offense.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Our team as a whole produced less touchdowns and that was in large part due to Stafford's up and down year.

 

Like I said earlier in the overrated thread, a lot of times he was tackled nearly 31-3 yards short of the endzone. And once we're in the redzone, we just didn't target him because they didn't wanna force it into crazy coverage.

 

Even 2 years ago when he scored the 16 TDs, most of it came in the first half of the season before he started getting truly zoned in by apposing defenses. I personally don't put too much stock on the amount of TDs he scored.

[BC 331]

The guy who lead the league wasn't even a full time starter so how can you even say that the stat matters that much

[seanbrock 1,684]

Rice may be the greatest receiver ever, but if I needed a receiver for one game that you absolutely had to win, could you pick anyone other than CJ? Moss might be right there with him and ahead of Rice as well.

idk if I could pick anyone but Rice at this point to win 1 game because he didn't just put up stats in the regular season. I realize that Calvin hasn't exactly had the chance to prove himself in the playoffs very much and when he did he absolutely went off but Rice made a career of it. Not every post season game he played was great numbers wise but a lot of them were and most of them were at least good.

 

A lot of people point to Jerry Rice's 40 time he ran at the combine and say he wasn't that fast, but one showing at the combine doesn't necessarily show how fast you are. The guy had great hands and ran great routes. Everything about being a receiver, Jerry Rice excelled at, so while make no mistake, I respect the hell out of Megatron and think he could overtake Jerry Rice at some point, idt it's now and I still take Rice in any situation over any WR at this particular point in time.

 

This is kind of like everybody saying LeBron was the next Michael Jordan when he was drafted and ever since.......maybe, but not yet.

[Dutch 874]

I'm going to get this out the way and say Rice is the undisputed best WR to ever put on cleats. Nothing that isn't already common knowledge, but when you're comparing a G.O.A.T to anyone, it can be touchy. I'm going to start off and give Calvin Johnson his props for breaking Rice's record. That record stood for 18 years. Calvin had one hell of a phenomenal season. People may have heard me make this reference to Adrian Peterson. Calvin Johnson is unlike anything we have seen. We've never seen a WR with his size, weight/body frame, speed, amazing body kinesthetics/body control and amazing athletic ability. Randy Moss was the first true freak we've seen at that position, but Calvin seems to be an evolved form being bigger (imposing body); possibly better body control as well. Calvin Johnson's career is off to an amazing start and last year was the beginning of his legacy on the game.

 

With all of that said, I'm going side with Rice's season being better by a considerable marigin. Calvin Johnson had the yards but Jerry Rice put way more TD's on the board. 17 TD's > 116 yards which is the main differential between their stats.

 

So I guess I would say that Johnson's 2012 is solidly in the conversation for #2 all time.

 

Definitely solidly in the conversation for second best season. It's debatable but I would probably take Randy Moss's season over Calvin Johnson's. 18 TDs > 24 receptions and 471 yards in my opinion.

 

Now, taking one receiver for one game is when it starts to become interesting.

This is an interesting video I found with some reputable players discussing Jerry Rice vs Randy Moss.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-no-huddle/0ap2000000133623/No-Huddle-Moss-place-in-history

 

Interesting video (to me at least). Now again, Jerry Rice is undoubtedly the best WR of all time. Rice wasn't the best route runner of all time, he didn't have the best hands of all time but Jerry Rice was equally great at every aspect of the game and made the ultimate WR. Also, what separated Jerry Rice from the rest of the bunch was his longevity and consistency of performing at an amazing level for a long period of time. Now with that being said, there have been receivers that have had better seasons than Rice at times; receivers that put up Rice type numbers in their primes. The main thing is that Rice primes lasted about 10 years longer than everyone else lol. But there have been receivers that put together great seasons. So, when the question is asked which WR would you take in their prime, is it too absurd for other receivers to be considered with other receivers rivaling Rice's seasons but just couldn't uphold their prime for so long like Rice? Lol... the semantics when discussing an all time great gets tricky.

 

I took Jerry Rice's, Randy Moss's, and Calvin Johnson's best 5 seasons. Also take into consideration that Rice played 20 seasons, Moss, 15, and Johnson only 5 who may just be entering his prime.

 

Jerry Rice

 

1986: 86 rec, 1570 yds, 18.3 avg, 15 TDs

1987: 65 rec, 1078 yds, 16.6 avg, 22 TDs

1989: 82 rec, 1483 yds, 18.1 avg, 17 TDs

1993: 98 rec, 1503 yds, 15.3 avg, 15 TDs

1995: 122 rec, 1848 yds, 15.1, 15 TDs

 

Averaged: 90.6 Receptions, 1496 yards, 16.7 ypc, 16.8 TDs

 

Randy Moss

 

1998: 69 rec, 1313 yds, 19.0 avg, 17 TDs

2000: 77 rec, 1437 yds, 18.7 avg, 15 TDs

2003: 111 rec, 1632 yds, 14.7 avg, 17 TDs

2007: 98 rec, 1493 yds, 15.2 avg, 23 TDs

2009: 83 rec, 1264 yds, 15.2 avg, 13 TDs

 

Averaged: 87.6 Receptions, 1427 yards, 16.5 ypc, 17 TDs

 

Calvin Johnson

 

2008: 78 rec, 1331 yds, 17.1 avg, 12 TDs

2009: 67 rec, 984 yds, 14.7 avg, 5 TDs

2010: 77 rec, 1120 yds, 14.5 avg, 12 TDs

2011: 96 rec, 1681 yds, 17.5 avg, 16 TDs

2012: 122 rec, 1964 yds, 16.1 avg, 5 TDs

 

Averaged: 88 Receptions, 1416 yards, 16.0 ypc, 10 TDs

 

Ofcourse it's a little too premature to add Calvin Johnson to the discussion seeing as though he only has 6 years to account for compared to Randy's 15 and Jerry's 20. But he's on the right track and can continue to surprise us. Now for Moss and Rice, those numbers are pretty close with Rice making the biggest difference in yards. Now again, Rice is the best receiver of all time. Now if we are talking one game (or season) in their prime, with Moss matching Rice's production (not career because no one can touch his career; longevity, consistency etc) in his prime, is it a crime to pick Moss? Is it too far of a stretch to consider Randy Moss? Randy was a problem when he came to the league. He impacted the game like no other receiver in the history of the game. You can pick a season when both receivers were in their primes and both were virtually unstoppable. When you talk career, Randy can't touch Rice. But for one game or possibly a season, is it absurd to consider Moss with how dangerous he was up top? People tend to forget how unstoppable Randy Moss was when he entered the league. He changed the game on how defenses defended the deep threat.

 

Just a little food for thought. Talking about a game or possibly a season doesn't seem far fetched but if we were talking career, ofcourse that's another story. Just trying to throw a different perspective out there so it can possibly open up for a good legitimate discussion. But in their primes, they put up similar numbers. For one season, I think an argument can be made for Moss. Rice's prime just lasted longer.

Edited June 29, 2013 by dutchff7

[Minny 33]

I personally don't think Calvin's 2012 season was even close to as good as his 2011 season. People constantly talk about him nearly getting 2000 yards last year, but he actually averaged more yards/target in 2011, not to mention catching over 3 times more touchdowns.

 

In 2011, Calvin averaged 10.6 yards per target.

In 2012, Calvin averaged 9.6 yards per target.

 

From just a pure per/target standpoint, Calvin was actually slightly below-average in 2012. Other greats like A.J Green, Julio Jones, and Dez Bryant were all substantially better than him.

 

Obviously Stafford's play was a big reason for Calvin's dropoff, but it still has to be accounted for. Efficiency wins games. Calvin only getting into the endzone 5 times on 205 targets is going to lose you games.

[Crash 105]

No dissrespect to Jerry rice but he played in a time with less complexity to defenses, less physical talent at corner and he played in a west coast scheme that at that time was the master offense that couldn't be disifered. Jerry rice in that scheme is like running backs in the heavy ZBS, their stats are skewed

[Dutch 874]

No dissrespect to Jerry rice but he played in a time with less complexity to defenses, less physical talent at corner and he played in a west coast scheme that at that time was the master offense that couldn't be disifered. Jerry rice in that scheme is like running backs in the heavy ZBS, their stats are skewed

 

 

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Over the last two years my position with Megatron has been galvanized. I truly believe we are watching the best that has ever played the game, we just dont know it yet. This last season to me is more impressive than Rice's.

 

 

Look at that shit. You wonder why he has not touchdowns, that is why. People have started treating him like a gunner on a punt because not having two immediately jam him and you are in trouble.

 

Ok now I know this will be blasphemy but hear this out.

 

Jerry Rice

 

John Talyor-WR-All pro

Brent Jones-TE- Pro bowl.

Roger Craig/Ricky Waters- All Pros

 

Had them until 1994.

 

Then TO gets drafted and he still has waters.

 

QB's. Montana and Steve Young. HOF all pros and BOTH usually mentioned top 5 of all time.

 

Then he goes to the Raiders with Rich Gannon Chucking it to Tim Brown and Rice.

 

Now tell me when did Rice ever have to do it on his own ?

 

Calvin Johnson

 

Calvin Johnson...

 

He has had next to nothing his entire career. When Rice was setting record he usually had 3 other pro bowlers on the roster on offense. Now you can say Rice made them but I doubt it. If that were the CAse Tony Scheffler and Ryan Broyles would be pro bowlers or all pros. He only has 5 TD'e because honestly who the hell else on that offense scares you.

 

Think about it in perspective of a D coordinator. You know that when he has over 20 yards ahead of him defending him is impossible. Limiting happens sometimes. In the redzone though within 5 yards he does not have enough time to separate and with no other weapons to defend you can relegate him somewhat.

 

Now for Jerry Rice. Ok there is Jerry the GOAT. Check. Now defend Brent Jones/John Taylor/Tim Brown/Terrell Owens. Then defend Ricky Watters/Roger Craig either running it or receiving out of the backfield. Then you have 2 HOF'ers and All Pro's and a lowly Pro-Bowler throwing to him. Oh yeah and two of them can run it in as well as throw it. In Oakland they had Tyrone Wheatley who would have eating a bow with less than 8 men alive.

 

Then lets look at coaching. Bill Walsh. Innovator and one of the best offensive minds the game has ever seen.

 

And in this corner Scott linehan and Jim Schwartz.

 

 

Now I am not saying Jerry was all a product of a system because he would have been great no matter what. What I am saying though is he ALWAYS had weapons wherever he went. He was much tougher to defend in the redzone because you could not just focus on him. Calvin on the other hand there is Calvin and 10 other guys.

 

I think Megatrons season is all the more impressive considering that. I think that was probably the best season by a WR in history.

[Thanatos 2,847]

No dissrespect to Jerry rice but he played in a time with less complexity to defenses, less physical talent at corner and he played in a west coast scheme that at that time was the master offense that couldn't be disifered. Jerry rice in that scheme is like running backs in the heavy ZBS, their stats are skewed

 

LOL WUT???

 

The DBs job today is a hell of a lot harder because they can't maul WRs like they could when Rice was playing.

 

Rice's stats are MORE impressive because of the era he was in, not less.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Thanatos19

[KempBolt 498]

LOL WUT???

 

The DBs job today is a hell of a lot harder because they can't maul WRs like they could when Rice was playing.

 

Rice's stats are MORE impressive because of the era he was in, not last.

 

Agreed. Life is easier than it's ever been before for receivers in the NFL. Johnson has it easier than Rice, who had it easier than Swann, etc.

[Bay 2,003]

It's obvious Crash is a 49ers hater. This isn't the only sign.

[Crash 105]

LOL WUT???

 

The DBs job today is a hell of a lot harder because they can't maul WRs like they could when Rice was playing.

 

Rice's stats are MORE impressive because of the era he was in, not less.

The rules make it harder but do you really think the corners were better? Look at today's corners, Sherman, revis, bailey, Nnamdi. These guys are great corners today and if they went back to Jerry rices day, Jerry would never be open. If revis could physically maul a wr not a single reception would be made on revis all year. I get the rules were different but the talent is by far better nowadays

 

It's obvious Crash is a 49ers hater. This isn't the only sign.

I think their completely over rated today but I get tired of all the worship on older players like they were invincible. Jim brown pisses me off the most, was he great? Yes but he played against 180lbs linebackers and 220 defensive lineman. Brown was the biggest guy on the field, you take him and lets see what he does against the big time defenses nowadays, let him run against the niners big defense or the behemoths in Seattle and see how average he looks.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Zack_of_Steel

[Thanatos 2,847]

The rules make it harder but do you really think the corners were better? Look at today's corners, Sherman, revis, bailey, Nnamdi. These guys are great corners today and if they went back to Jerry rices day, Jerry would never be open. If revis could physically maul a wr not a single reception would be made on revis all year. I get the rules were different but the talent is by far better nowadays.

 

No. Just no.

 

Jerry would never be open if Bailey or Nnamdi was on him? Are you kidding me?

[Dutch 874]

The rules make it harder but do you really think the corners were better? Look at today's corners, Sherman, revis, bailey, Nnamdi. These guys are great corners today and if they went back to Jerry rices day, Jerry would never be open. If revis could physically maul a wr not a single reception would be made on revis all year. I get the rules were different but the talent is by far better nowadays

 

[Crash 105]

No. Just no.

 

Jerry would never be open if Bailey or Nnamdi was on him? Are you kidding me?

You must be like 12 cause before there was revis island no one could throw on champ and if you think the lest couple years show what Nnamdi is your just insane, when he was with the raiders(who used him right) he took his receiver out of the game period. I know most fans don't really know much outside what mainstream media tells them.

 

I'm really amazed by some people on here, does no one know that Nnamdi was a top 2 corner for 5-6 years before he went to Philly? He was revis before revis. Either people just go off of how the idiot coaches for the eagles used him or they just don't know everything about football

Edited June 30, 2013 by Crash

[Phins4life 271]

The rules make it harder but do you really think the corners were better? Look at today's corners, Sherman, revis, bailey, Nnamdi. These guys are great corners today and if they went back to Jerry rices day, Jerry would never be open. If revis could physically maul a wr not a single reception would be made on revis all year. I get the rules were different but the talent is by far better nowadays

 

We can run through what-ifs until the sun goes out, but the fact remains that within the system Rice played in, he was near perfect. By today's physical standards, I don't know if Rice would be ideally set into an X/Z role, but I'm almost certain he would play the slot role as good as, if not better than, Welker has ever done. Good hands...check. Good instincts...check. Good route running skills...double check.

 

 

I think their completely over rated today

 

Young team...stout defense...versatile offense...SB runner-up...talented coach who doesn't really give a shit what other people think of him...

 

Any reason in particular you think they're overrated

 

Jim brown pisses me off the most, was he great? Yes but he played against 180lbs linebackers and 220 defensive lineman. Brown was the biggest guy on the field, you take him and lets see what he does against the big time defenses nowadays, let him run against the niners big defense or the behemoths in Seattle and see how average he looks.

 

The reels don't always reveal it because they're always played in that annoying slow-motion, but Brown had impressive open field speed, and clearly he was big enough to get physical when needed. It should be noted he played in a time when you could do just about anything you wanted to a runner short of breaking his neck, so it's entirely plausible he could compete in this era as well, perhaps most successfully as a ZBS runner (other experts here are free to call me out on that one if I'm wrong). Just because he didn't get beat up as much as others doesn't mean he wouldn't be able to take a beating if needed. I do think he'd be a pretty fast burner, though...27-29 range. Longevity would be heavily tied to how he adapted his style to today's pace.

 

 

It's funny how side-tracked some of these threads get. Moving back to the comparison between Rice's achievements and CJ's, I think attempting to compare them would be a serious injustice to both players. Numbers wise, Rice is king...for now. In terms of physical skill set, I think it's just as clear that Johnson wins. If I have a choice, give me both. Jerry underneath and Johnson over the top. Nasty.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Phins4life

[Thanatos 2,847]

You must be like 12 cause before there was revis island no one could throw on champ and if you think the lest couple years show what Nnamdi is your just insane, when he was with the raiders(who used him right) he took his receiver out of the game period. I know most fans don't really know much outside what mainstream media tells them.

 

I'm really amazed by some people on here, does no one know that Nnamdi was a top 2 corner for 5-6 years before he went to Philly? He was revis before revis. Either people just go off of how the idiot coaches for the eagles used him or they just don't know everything about football

 

I'm 25, moron. I saw Jerry Rice play. You must be the one whose 12, because Nnamdi Asomugha is not making it so that Jerry Rice is never open. Neither is Darrelle Revis. You are a typical NFL fan who tends to massively underrate older players and significantly overrate newer ones. Sherman is a great corner. He would probably do okay against Jerry. He isn't going to shut down the greatest WR to ever play the game of football as you so arrogantly suggest, especially since nowadays corners have to be a lot more careful what they can do to WRs. Jerry played in an era where he could get mauled by the DBs. No longer. You bring Rice into this era he would do just as good if not better than he did.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Thanatos19

[Dutch 874]

You must be like 12 cause before there was revis island no one could throw on champ and if you think the lest couple years show what Nnamdi is your just insane, when he was with the raiders(who used him right) he took his receiver out of the game period. I know most fans don't really know much outside what mainstream media tells them.

 

I'm really amazed by some people on here, does no one know that Nnamdi was a top 2 corner for 5-6 years before he went to Philly? He was revis before revis. Either people just go off of how the idiot coaches for the eagles used him or they just don't know everything about football

 

Nnamdi wasn't utilized correctly all the time in Philly. He was asked to play in some zone defenses and he was beyond horrible at it. A complete lack of versatility only capable of playing man to man; a one trick pony. Even in man coverage, there were several occasions where he just got flat out beat.

 

Nnamdi's time/reputation in Oakland was somewhat inflated because he was rarely tested. He played at the RCB position where QBs rarely throw. Don't get me wrong, Nnamdi was great at press coverage and he was great at shadowing receivers which is why QBs simply decided to throw to other areas of the suspect Oakland defense. But when Nnamdi came to Philly going against QBs like Eli Manning that will throw the ball regardless of good coverage or not, Nnamdi got exposed.

 

Here's a perfect example: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000118707/Randle-38-yard-touchdown

 

That was great coverage by Nnamdi but he still got burnt. Nnamdi jumped after the ball was already caught. He can be in great coverage and in perfect position but he still fails to make a play on the ball. He has horrible ball skills and isn't athletic. He's just long and lanky. Nnamdi can shadow very well at times but he is still very liable to get burnt due to his horrible ball skills. Not to mention he's bad at guarding double moves.

 

He was revis before revis.

 

This is just wrong. Nnamdi exclusively played at right cornerback. He never moved and as I pointed out, that side is targeted less. Nnamdi also was only good at man coverage. Revis on the other hand moved all around the field from left corner, to right, and even playing in the slot which is very difficult. Revis follows the teams #1 WR all game week in and week out. Nnamdi stayed on the right side so all offenses had to do was move their receiver to another area. Not to mention Revis isn't a one trick pony and is more versatile being excellent in zone coverage when he's asked to do it. There is no comparison.

 

I can see Nnamdi doing better in San Fran because he won't be in zone much to get further exposed but he is no Revis and is highly overrated.

[NaTaS+ 958]

It's impossible to compare or try to evaluate how historically great players would fit into todays NFL.

 

Yes, there are bigger, faster players today - but with that comes the enhancements in workout regiments and supplements Those guys back in the day would likely be bigger and faster as well and combine that with their natural gifts, they could just as easily be freaks in this era of football.

 

Crash, you deleted posts and for that you fail.