ATL_Predator+ 1,196 Posted January 29, 2014 Drew Brees said he sees Jimmy Graham as a tight end. By now, everyone should be aware of the impending battle between Graham and the Saints over whether he'll be franchise tagged as a tight end or wideout. So Brees is hanging his teammate out to dry a little bit here. Per Pro Football Focus, Graham only lined up as a tight end 33 percent of the time in 2013. "He's a tight end," Brees said. "He's a tight end. We're able to do a lot of creative things with him, just like we're able to do with a lot of our offensive personnel." The difference between the tight end and wideout tag is $4.6 million. The Saints are roughly $13.3 million over the 2014 cap right now. Source: Profootballtalk on NBCSports.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Favre4Ever+ 4,476 Posted January 29, 2014 Same thing Jermichael Finley was dealing with, but Graham spent even less time at TE. There were some idiot Packer fans talking about the Packers potential in signing Graham. I sure hope not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seanbrock 1,684 Posted January 30, 2014 Same thing Jermichael Finley was dealing with, but Graham spent even less time at TE. There were some idiot Packer fans talking about the Packers potential in signing Graham. I sure hope not. idk, the production he's had since he's been drafted is at a WR level so why not give him WR money? I don't think this means Graham is a locker room cancer or anything. I think he has a legitimate gripe and any one of us would probably do the same thing and try and get as much money as possible. I for one would love to have Jimmy Graham in Philly. There's always room for a great playmaker like him. Him and Ertz in 2014 with Jackson and maybe even Maclin would be sick and LeSean McCoy in the backfield... We have to sign Foles soon though too. Keep that in mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241 Posted January 30, 2014 I love Graham, and I personally would take him over any receiver/TE not named CJ. If anyone tight end qualifies for getting the receiver label, it's him... There are times when he doesn't even look all that competent as a blocker. Granted those are more few and far in between then usual. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Favre4Ever+ 4,476 Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Same thing Jermichael Finley was dealing with, but Graham spent even less time at TE. There were some idiot Packer fans talking about the Packers potential in signing Graham. I sure hope not. idk, the production he's had since he's been drafted is at a WR level so why not give him WR money? I don't think this means Graham is a locker room cancer or anything. I think he has a legitimate gripe and any one of us would probably do the same thing and try and get as much money as possible. I for one would love to have Jimmy Graham in Philly. There's always room for a great playmaker like him. Him and Ertz in 2014 with Jackson and maybe even Maclin would be sick and LeSean McCoy in the backfield... We have to sign Foles soon though too. Keep that in mind. Probably just because, if you can save half of his salary -- you can put that money elsewhere. Especially for a team like the Saints, who are already a "projected" $10 million over the cap, that money is pretty important. I also think this position is getting flooded with talent right now. These tall, lanky, basketball players converting to TEs... Not saying any of them will be as great as Graham, but if you can fill even half his production with a fraction of the salary -- I think teams will do that. Having a playmaker like Graham, IMO, is viewed more as a luxury and not a need. Hence teams maybe not wanting to give him absurd money. -- Edit: With that said, there are 32 teams in this league and all it takes is one. Edited January 30, 2014 by Favre4Ever Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ATL_Predator+ 1,196 Posted February 13, 2014 Free agent Jimmy Graham says it's not for him to decide if he's treated as a tight end or wide receiver in contract negotiations. "I'm going to play whatever I'm asked to do," Graham said. "It's that simple." Of course, it's not that simple, but Graham isn't going to concern himself with the machinations of his agent. Graham also said he has "no idea" how long talks might take. Graham has previously said it would be "really unfortunate" if the Saints slapped him with the franchise tag. The tag can be applied starting Monday. Source: Larry Holder on Twitter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glanvilles Grits 142 Posted February 13, 2014 To my knowledge, Graham plays much more at wide receiver, and he's treated on field as a wide receiver majority of the time now by defenses. Of course he came out as a tight end, but at what point do you treat him as what he really is? The guy is a receiver. He's not asked to block too very often, a lot of times on running plays you will see Graham on the side lines even. The official statistics that have come up in terms of snaps played: Lined up @ Tight End: 105 Snaps Lined up @ Receiver: 166 Snaps (This is slot and out wide combined) So if he's played majority of snaps at wide receiver, why is there any sort of major argument here? No matter how you slice it, he's easily either 1 or 2 at tight end in the game right now. If you view him as a wide receiver, he's easily in the top 10. So either way, Graham deserves to get paid. I just find it astounding that the Saints have already released statements that they won't break the bank for the guy. He has basically been the Saints life line outside of Brees. Pay the man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vin+ 3,121 Posted February 18, 2014 NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports free agent Jimmy Graham will immediately file a grievance if he's franchise-tagged as a tight end. Teams could start applying the franchise tag on Monday and are able to do so through March 3. Long-term talks haven't progressed between Graham and the Saints. If they don't in two weeks, then Graham will be tagged. And the Saints are fully expected to tag him as a tight end. They can expect a fight from Graham. The difference between the two tags is roughly $4.5 million. Source: Ian Rapoport on Twitter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glanvilles Grits 142 Posted February 23, 2014 Interesting. At some point though, you've got to start wondering if this entire process is going to damage his standing with the team or even Drew Brees. Brees already came out and said that he thinks Graham should be considered a tight end. I wonder if that makes Graham feel a little slighted. If they tag him this year as a tight end, he may be less willing to resign with them next season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Turry 755 Posted February 26, 2014 FOX's Mike Garafolo reports the Saints and free agent Jimmy Graham remain "several million dollars per season apart" in long-term talks. According to Garafolo, the Saints have "made it clear" they're willing to surpass Rob Gronkowski's average annual value of $9 million, but that it's "not enough yet." Garafolo believes the sides are headed for their long-anticipated showdown over whether Graham should be franchise tagged as a tight end or receiver. The only thing we know for sure is that there's no way the Saints will let Graham get away in free agency. Source: Mike Garafolo on Twitter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vin+ 3,121 Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) Jimmy Graham is scheduled to make $7.035 million in 2014 under the terms of the tight end franchise tag. That number could jump to $12.312 million if Graham wins his likely forthcoming appeal to be considered a wide receiver. Both sides could avoid any confrontation by hashing out a new long-term deal. The other offensive numbers were also announced. Quarterbacks will cost $16.912 million, running backs $9.54, and offensive lineman $11.654. Source: Albert Breer on Twitter Saints used the non-exclusive franchise tag on Jimmy Graham. Under the terms of the non-exclusive tag, other teams will be allowed to negotiate with Graham. If Graham and another team come to terms, the Saints will have the option to match the deal. If the Saints do not wish to match the deal, Graham's new team will send New Orleans two first-round picks as compensation. That scenario is unlikely to unfold, and this is likely just one of a series of twists and turns to come in the Graham contract saga. Source: Chris Mortensen on Twitter Edited March 2, 2014 by Vin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BLUE 1,026 Posted March 25, 2014 Posted by Mike Florio on March 24, 2014, 10:16 PM EDT As the Saints and tight end Jimmy Graham continue to not have a long-term deal in place, the question becomes when the next real deadline applies for either side. The next real deadline applies on or about April 22, when Graham must file a grievance regarding his designation as a tight end for franchise tag purposes. Per a league source, the current expectation is that the Saints and Graham will finalize a long-term contract before Graham pulls the pin on a grievance grenade. Once Graham files a grievance, the process will take on a life of its own, with more than $5 million turning on whether Graham lined up more as a receiver or a tight end for franchise tag purposes. At that point, Graham has nothing to lose by letting it ride — especially once the process becomes adversarial in an industry where the bright line of winning and losing looms over everything else. Graham can make a strong case for consideration as a receiver for tag purposes. The Saints can make a compelling case, too, but they surely have no desire to draw battle lines with one of their best players. That’s why it makes plenty of sense to resolve the situation before it can take a potentially ugly turn. Source: ProFootballTalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BLUE 1,026 Posted June 30, 2014 Per Rotoworld.com: Abitrator Stephen Burbank plans to inform the Saints and NFL of Jimmy Graham's franchise tag designation on Thursday, July 3. Burbank will decide whether the Saints' tight end tag should stick, or whether Graham should be honored as a wide receiver. The "losing" side is expected to then appeal Burbank's ruling. Our ultimate expectation is a compromise in the middle, with Graham maintaining tight end eligibility in all fantasy leagues. Jun 30 - 4:43 PM Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glanvilles Grits 142 Posted July 1, 2014 It's not really a tough decision IMO. Of course the guy is considered a "TE". But, this should be easy to decide for arbitration. The guy plays a large majority of snaps at WR, he should be compensated as a WR. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos 2,847 Posted July 2, 2014 If Rain Man is correct, wouldn't that mean for fantasy purposes that he'd be a WR? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos 2,847 Posted July 2, 2014 Welp. Moot point. Jimmy Graham has been deemed to be a TE. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000363018/article/jimmy-graham-deemed-tight-end-in-system-arbitration Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Favre4Ever+ 4,476 Posted July 2, 2014 Playing in the slot doesn't count as a WR as far as the tag goes? Lol... So.. are all slot WRs actually TEs? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oochymp 2,393 Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) If Rain Man is correct, wouldn't that mean for fantasy purposes that he'd be a WR? I'm in one league that rather than starting a TE has a TE/WR spot and I like that a lot better, lets people start guys like Graham, Gronk, Gates, and the like without forcing someone to start a guy like Heath Miller Playing in the slot doesn't count as a WR as far as the tag goes? Lol... So.. are all slot WRs actually TEs? that would be an interesting discussion if a slot WR gets tagged, but I suspect the fact that a slot WR never lines up with the o-line would impair an argument that they're a TE Edited July 2, 2014 by oochymp Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025 Posted July 3, 2014 NFL Owners/the Saints win as usual, Players/Jimmy Graham lose as usual.Nothing to see here. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BLUE 1,026 Posted July 4, 2014 Per Rotoworld.com: Profootballtalk reports the Saints have offered franchise player Jimmy Graham a multi-year contract worth $9.5 million annually. PFT's Mike Florio hints the offer has been on the table for some time now, and the Saints have no plans to withdraw it, even after winning the arbitration case against Graham on Wednesday. At $9.5 million per year, Graham would be the league's highest-paid tight end. The offer also reportedly contains a "considerable chunk of fully guaranteed money up front." Florio expects the two sides to hammer out a deal at some point before the July 15 deadline. Jul 4 - 10:47 AM Source: Profootballtalk on NBC Sports Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glanvilles Grits 142 Posted July 6, 2014 This could potentially open a huge can of worms in the future for teams wanting to tag their stars for less money. Just dumb the way they ruled it. I am a believer that while you may be considered a tight end, a running back, so on and so forth, the franchise tag salary should always be verted toward the position in which you took the most snaps at. In this case it would be wide receiver because of how often Graham was in the slot or out wide. By saying that none of that mattered and that the slot position isn't wide receiver, you've now made a whole new category of player really for when the next guy wants to debate his tag salary. What happens when guys like Percy Harvin, Randall Cobb, Victor Cruz decide to debate their tag salary? Or even worse, because it's unlikely those guys would ever fire the first shot likely tagged as receivers, what happens when a team now says 'wait a minute, we're not paying *insert player* as a receiver because he plays in the slot". They now have the straight line for a win thanks to this ruling on tight ends. Perhaps they need to re-work the tag salary positions with the way the NFL has changed in the past 5 - 10 years. We see guys like Jimmy Graham, Vernon Davis, Percy Harvin, Darren Sproles, even a guy like Jamaal Charles, play in positions and ways that are outside the spectrum of their "true" positions. I think this Graham ruling gives too much leeway to the teams in terms of opening a can of worms when it comes to salaries. On another note, I'm still real curious to see whether or not this has left Graham with some sour feelings towards the Saints at this point. They offered him quite a bit of money, he may very well try and demand a bit more money to be compensated for the tag salary he's now been forced to accept. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vin+ 3,121 Posted July 8, 2014 A source with knowledge of the situation tells Profootballtalk.com the Saints were not thrilled with the way arbitrator Stephen Burbank ruled in their favor during the Jimmy Graham franchise tag case. The Saints "disagree" a tight end's position is determined by whether he lines up within four yards of an offensive tackle. They believe three factors distinguish tight ends: 1) Their size 2) The position group with which they meet 3) How they are defended. PFT's Mike Florio, who is an attorney, suggests the Graham case could be "a little more vulnerable to reversal" on appeal. We're still not worried about Graham losing tight end eligibility in fantasy football leagues. Source: Profootballtalk on NBC Sports Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oochymp 2,393 Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) here's an interesting write up on the 4 yard wording: Clearing up confusion over ‘4-yard’ ruling - NFL Nation Blog - ESPN Burbank [the arbitrator] repeatedly referenced Graham's physical dimensions in how he was evaluated by the Saints before being drafted and how he is used by the team. And the evidence that appeared to weigh most heavily into Burbank's decision was that Graham was often defended as a tight end even when he lined up in the slot (i.e., by a linebacker or a strong safety). Wrote Burbank: "The evidence also supports findings that, like tight ends, wide receivers and running backs often line up in the slot ... and that the defense employed against any player so aligned turns on the player's position, not his alignment, because of the physical attributes and skill sets of the players in those positions." Burbank then cited testimony from Saints coach Payton, who said, "When our receivers are lined up widest in formations, they are never covered by safeties or linebackers ever. ... Never ever ever ever ever does a linebacker match up with a wide receiver ever." so it looks like the big factor isn't so much how often a player is lined up in the slot but how the defense reacts when he's in the slot, which makes a lot of sense Edited July 8, 2014 by oochymp 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BLUE 1,026 Posted July 14, 2014 Per Rotoworld.com: ESPN's Adam Schefter reports the Saints and franchise player Jimmy Graham are "closing in" on a deal that would make Graham the highest-paid tight end in league history. Reports of a long-term deal have been seconded by FOX Sports and Profootballtalk. The sides have until Tuesday to finalize a long-term agreement. If talks fall apart, Graham would be forced to play out 2014 under the tight-end franchise tag (though he's appealed his tag as a tight end). Graham will blow by the $16 million guaranteed — the most for any current tight end — Dennis Pitta and Jared Cook received in their recent deals. Jul 14 - 5:16 PM Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SteVo+ 3,702 Posted July 15, 2014 https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/489039858610880512 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
