Transgender rights

[blotsfan 2,112]

I'm curious as to what people here think about transgender rights. I'm sure to the surprise of nobody here, I believe that they should have the right to be treated as their chosen gender and there should be made a protected class.

 

While this is probably still somewhat far off from happening, I think this is the "next gay marriage" so to speak. It seems likely that the change will come eventually, and I'm sure this will keep coming up in debates, so why not talk about it here?

[RazorStar 4,025]

As long as transgender people are not harming others, (and in nearly every case, they are not), they should be treated as the gender they believe they are, not the one they were born as. While I can not possibly comprehend why someone would feel uncomfortable about their gender, if someone thinks they're a man when they have a vagina, why should they not be treated how they want to be treated?

 

Which brings me to a question... should there be a third bathroom for transgendered people installed in public places, or should there just be all sex bathrooms to begin with?

[BwareDWare94 723]

This is where I fall off the social equality bandwagon a little bit. When it comes to society and public places, what you are biologically can't just be overlooked because you "feel" that you're something else. Imagine de-sexed public restrooms, which would then become places that sexual predators use to target women or children. This is 10X more complicated than Gay Marriage. I only named one issue, but so many more would arise.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

Which brings me to a question... should there be a third bathroom for transgendered people installed in public places, or should there just be all sex bathrooms to begin with?

 

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Edited September 3, 2015 by Sarge

[RazorStar 4,025]

Sarge you can't be everyone's bathroom, no matter how much you want to.

 

[Cherry 1,302]

Separate bathroom for transgenders, unless they feel comfortable using the restroom they've got the parts for.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

I would be offended if a tranny used the same bathroom as me. Which nobody should neg me for, because I'm allowed to be offended by literally everything. Because 'Murrica.

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

If I saw a transjenner use the bathroom next to me I'd find it shocking at first but then likely amusing. Wouldn't laugh at them or anything but definitely would bring up that story to others later because I am human. Weird shit happens to me a lot so it'd probably just be another one thrown into the vault.

 

As far as socially I think people should let live unless there's some obvious fuckery afoot. Therein lies the problem though because that's a judgement call. Like if dude prisoners are claiming transgender to get put into women prison etc. etc. etc. Loopholes y'all. Gotta cut that shit off before they leak.

[Cherry 1,302]

Got into an argument over a recent case in Missouri regarding transgender rights. I won't sugarcoat it here, but the person in question believed themself to be a woman, but was still in a pre-operation phase. Basically had a dick and wanted to use the women's restroom. The school had a huge walkout of students because a lot of them felt uncomfortable with the pre-op person using the women's restroom. Lila, the person in question, refused to use a gender-neutral restroom, instead demanding to use the women's restroom.

 

I think a huge issue in America right now is how willing we are to bend to all forms of progressive thinking. Gay marriage has taken root, but it's a much easier concept to handle. Gay marriage doesn't have an effect on day-to-day life. Meanwhile, allowing someone with a functioning penis to use a women's restroom does affect day-to-day life.

 

I personally find it offensive that a school can back the wishes of one student over the wishes of dozens-hundreds. The student wasn't content to let everyone else be comfortable and use a gender-neutral restroom. Instead they wanted to push for no other reason than "Mah rights" to be around other girls.

 

(For the record, I didn't use the female address for the student, because I'm unsure how TGP feels about that. Personally I'd prefer to refer to them by their chosen gender, but I'm not gonna argue over it.)

[BwareDWare94 723]

This is such a slippery slope. Who are the people that actually feel that their gender identity and biology are different? Who is using this cause to beg for attention? How can we possibly know who's legitimate and who isn't, because you can't convince me that there aren't attention whores who use this for their fix?

[Cherry 1,302]

This is such a slippery slope. Who are the people that actually feel that their gender identity and biology are different? Who is using this cause to beg for attention? How can we possibly know who's legitimate and who isn't, because you can't convince me that there aren't attention whores who use this for their fix?

That's why I'd be a large advocate of only allowing post-op individuals into the restroom of their chosen sex. If someone is willing to change their genitalia, I can view them as legitimately feeling that way. For people who haven't changed yet? I think it'd be best if they bided their time and used a gender neutral restroom.

[oochymp 2,393]

I think the obvious answer to the bathroom question is make all bathrooms single seaters.

 

In all seriousness tho, would it actually be that hard to make unisex bathrooms work? If you put every toilet in a stall (yes, even urinals) then there'd be sufficient privacy, and a lot of places already have family restrooms, which would work for those who want to "protect their children's innocence" but I'm not sure enough people would accept it and, unfortunately, I think there might be just enough pervs to keep it from actually working.

Edited September 3, 2015 by oochymp

[theMileHighGuy 656]

That's why I'd be a large advocate of only allowing post-op individuals into the restroom of their chosen sex. If someone is willing to change their genitalia, I can view them as legitimately feeling that way. For people who haven't changed yet? I think it'd be best if they bided their time and used a gender neutral restroom.

 

You don't decide to be the opposite sex, and then some people show up and you have the surgery. Not only is the surgery dangerous at the start, but it can come with severe (and sometimes permanent) complications. Just for the gross-out factor, an uncommon one is a breach between the rectal and 'vaginal' walls so you shit out of your new cooch uncontrollably (and all the infections that go with that). Female to male surgeries can cost $50k+ too.

 

Why should a person have to subject themselves to that to use a bathroom?

 

This is such a slippery slope. Who are the people that actually feel that their gender identity and biology are different? Who is using this cause to beg for attention? How can we possibly know who's legitimate and who isn't, because you can't convince me that there aren't attention whores who use this for their fix?

 

Why does it matter if they want attention? What do they gain from it other than ridicule?

 

 

 

@blots, I'm not really sure what you mean by "a protected class"... what does that entail exactly?

 

 

Personally, when I use a public restroom, I don't even look at the other people in there. Go in, piss, wash my hands, leave. If some dude that's really a chick peeps my D idgaf.

 

 

Edit: The only transgender issue that I really have a problem with is trans girls playing girls sports. It's just not fair, there's no being nice or tolerant about it. But it's still part of the issue, and there's some amount of hypocrisy there if you have one without the other.

Edited September 3, 2015 by theMileHighGuy

[Cherry 1,302]

The purpose of separate restrooms is to use them based on genitalia, not preferred gender. Unless we create unisex bathrooms, someone who has not had the operation should use the restroom for their designated sex. If they feel uncomfortable, they should use a neutral restroom. A restroom is not a place to declare your gender, it's a place to excrete waste. I personally don't care, but there are quite a few people who'd be uncomfortable.

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

It's not a matter of transgenders not properly using a separate bathroom designed for them...

 

It's the matter of the shit people in society that are scum that would play on that 'unisex' bathroom to do evil deeds such as sexual assault and whatever weird thrills they have.

 

The rights of a transgender should be the same as everyone else...but everyone else could very easily take on and abuse the rights of a transgender by pretending to be one.

Edited September 3, 2015 by DarthRaider

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

I think the obvious answer to the bathroom question is make all bathrooms single seaters.

 

In all seriousness tho, would it actually be that hard to make unisex bathrooms work? If you put every toilet in a stall (yes, even urinals) then there'd be sufficient privacy, and a lot of places already have family restrooms, which would work for those who want to "protect their children's innocence" but I'm not sure enough people would accept it and, unfortunately, I think there might be just enough pervs to keep it from actually working.

I'll abstain from giving my actual opinion because it should be pretty obvious as it relates to this subject..

 

But on the topic of unisex bathrooms, we had a whole section on this as an undergrad as I am technically an interior designer. Most designers who talk about it believe that men and women have just been conditioned through living their whole lives of things being one way to view unisex as wrong, and generate reasons why it wouldn't work. This also ties into the culture difference between the two kinds of bathrooms where men come in, handle business and leave. Whereas women come in, handle business, socialize, etc. So we design bigger mirrors, more counter space, etc.

 

A lot of designers believe that most of the reasons we make up for why unisex bathrooms wouldn't work are superficial, and in actuality wouldn't be real problems... Especially as time passes on. I kinda agree with that idea.

[Thanatos 2,847]

Separate bathroom for transgenders, unless they feel comfortable using the restroom they've got the parts for.

 

But then you would have the problem of a transgendered male and a transgendered female using the same bathroom. If you're gonna go this route, you need at least two more bathrooms, and that seems kinda silly.

[blotsfan 2,112]

I would like to point out that there are states that have laws letting transgender people use whichever bathroom they want, and none of them have noticed an impact on sexual assault.

 

In fact, transgender people are significantly more likely to be sexually assaulted. This study claims 64% of trans people that responded had been sexually assaulted. Even if you think that number is too high, its clear that the real number would be at a much higher rate than cis people.

[GA_Eagle 595]

This is as much of a non-issue to me as gay marriage. I mean that in this way: Its obvious that they should receive rights that all Americans enjoy. It effects me in no way to allow them to identify as the gender they see themselves as, regardless of surgical procedures that have or have not been performed.

 

The sports thing that was mentioned by someone might be something that i agree with but otherwise I see no real issue.

[Cherry 1,302]

 

But then you would have the problem of a transgendered male and a transgendered female using the same bathroom. If you're gonna go this route, you need at least two more bathrooms, and that seems kinda silly.

Referring to "family" bathroom type model. The odds of a transgender male and a transgender female using the same bathroom are slim to none, anyways.

[blotsfan 2,112]

The purpose of separate restrooms is to use them based on genitalia, not preferred gender. Unless we create unisex bathrooms, someone who has not had the operation should use the restroom for their designated sex. If they feel uncomfortable, they should use a neutral restroom. A restroom is not a place to declare your gender, it's a place to excrete waste. I personally don't care, but there are quite a few people who'd be uncomfortable.

 

Also, didn't we determine that someones rights trump the right to not be uncomfortable? Like, people weren't comfortable with gay marriage and we realized that didn't matter.

[Cherry 1,302]

It's not a right to go into a restroom of your choosing.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

 

Also, didn't we determine that someones rights trump the right to not be uncomfortable? Like, people weren't comfortable with gay marriage and we realized that didn't matter.

 

It's okay to make them uncomfortable with your actions, just don't do it with your words... AmIRite.

 

I think it surprises no one that I'm all for transgender rights. Most consistent fighter of liberty and equality there is.

[badgers 380]

I'm not sure how this opinion will be received but here it goes.

 

I'm not offended by the presence of a transgender person. I do think they deserve to be legally treated like any other person. However, I think the basis of "transgender ideology" (i.e. desiring to be and/or viewing yourself to be another sex than you actually are) is wrong. In fact I see it in the same category as a mental disorder. It's simply not normal to want to mutate your own body, in some cases, to fit your own personal desires. It is a disease and it should be treated like one.

 

I see it as far different than homosexuality because with being gay. Homosexuality is a sexual preference. Transgender is not. It's not normal and I think it's wrong.

 

I guess what I'm getting at is that, I don't support the way they are, or what they identify as, but I do support them having the same rights as us.

 

 

So I don't mean to offend anybody but that's just the way it is to me, I guess.

[BwareDWare94 723]

What kind of mental disorder creates a singular desire with which the individual is otherwise a fully functioning human being?