Mass Shooting at Pulse in Orlando

[BwareDWare94 723]

I'm not going to post any details until everything has been confirmed. We've all heard about it by now. It's being called the deadliest mass shooting in US history, with at least 50 dead and over 50 injured. Pulse is an LGBT night club in Orlando, and the very basic details we're being given is that the shooter is a radical Muslim who had reportedly pledged to ISIS. The shooting started at 2am ET and was a hostage situation until about 5am before police entered and shot the fucking oxygen thief.

 

That is the very, very bare bones story that we're being presented with. I think we should wait to post articles, reports, etc. Things seem to be changing every 10 minutes.

 

My thoughts are with the victims of this horrible tragedy, their families, the LGBT community in Orlando and around the world, and with the majority of Muslims around the world who are NOT radicals and go about their religion peacefully.

[Thanatos 2,847]

Reports are now that the shooter called 9-1-1 and said he was doing this in solidarity/allegiance with ISIS.

 

His father told CNN that this may have been triggered by him seeing two men kissing near there a month or so back. The father claims it has nothing to do with religion.

[Vin+ 3,121]

Awful stuff.

 

I would almost guarantee you that some sort of legislation is going to come from this.

[Cherry 1,302]

A muslim walks into a gay bar.

 

The bartender asks him, what'll it be?

 

"Shots for everyone."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously though, it absolutely sickens me that people are refusing to look at this shit with clear eyes. It was an extremist and radical Muslim hate crime. How can the LGBT community defend Islam any further after this?

 

Also a great time to see the moral peacocks who come out and bitch about mourning the dead and showing respect today. Like, come on, you didn't fucking know any of them, stop pretending to be on the moral high ground and talking shit about people who are pushing for a legitimate discussion about radical Islamic terrorism.

 

Or the folks who think banning guns entirely will solve the problem. Like prohibition ever worked out well.

[blotsfan 2,112]

Cherry, sometimes I forget that you're just barely out of high school.

 

Then you post.

[Thanatos 2,847]

A muslim walks into a gay bar.

 

The bartender asks him, what'll it be?

 

"Shots for everyone."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously though, it absolutely sickens me that people are refusing to look at this shit with clear eyes. It was an extremist and radical Muslim hate crime. How can the LGBT community defend Islam any further after this?

 

Also a great time to see the moral peacocks who come out and bitch about mourning the dead and showing respect today. Like, come on, you didn't fucking know any of them, stop pretending to be on the moral high ground and talking shit about people who are pushing for a legitimate discussion about radical Islamic terrorism.

 

Or the folks who think banning guns entirely will solve the problem. Like prohibition ever worked out well.

Holy fucking shit, Cherry. Are you serious? First you start with a joke- too damn soon- then you go after Islam as a whole? There are so many things wrong with this post, Jesus Christ.

 

I sincerely hope this is just anger and not what you actually think.

 

"Don't talk shit about people wanting a legitimate discussion about radical Islamic terrorism." "Oh and btw, don't think about banning guns, since prohibition never solved anything." Let's not be hypocritical or anything here.

 

Then you act like two groups of people are just blocs. The LGBT community, as if they all somehow go out of their way to support Islam, (which really, no idea what you're referring to here, given that Islam is decidedly unfriendly, to put it lightly, towards LGBT people), and then Islam, as if its a bloc, and all of them are responsible in some way for this tragedy.

 

You're also acting like an idiot and bringing up straw man arguments. No one in the political discussion wants to ban guns entirely. That's not what we want. We want (more) regulations. Did you know that the government can put ISIS sympathizers on a no fly list, but can't stop them from buying guns? It should be as hard to buy a gun as it is to get your driver's license.

 

1. Prove you can handle guns responsibly.

2. Background check to make sure you aren't crazy or a criminal.

3. Take a test prior to actually buying the gun.

4. Guns removed if used irresponsibly.

 

Did you know Congress cannot investigate gun violence because the NRA has Republicans in congress stop any such investigation as soon as it starts?

 

This man was an American citizen. Mr. Trump could not have deported him, so his policies would have done nothing about this. There are far more Americans killed by other Americans- non-Muslim ones even- than there are Americans that are killed by Muslims. Using this as a political platform to push your bigoted view is despicable. Not surprising though, given the Donald tweeted things just as bad right after the tragedy:

 

"Appreciate the congrats for being right on radical Islamic terrorism, I don't want congrats, I want toughness & vigilance. We must be smart!"

Edited June 12, 2016 by Thanatos

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

Ignoring the amount of radical Islamist isn't a solution to any problem either. The number of radical Islamists is so much dramatically higher compared to any other religion's radicals that it isn't funny. The % of terrorist attacks caused by radical Islamists compared to any other religion or demographic is insane.

 

Religion as a whole is an awful thing on this planet, but Islam, at least as it stands now, is by far the worst of the group(in terms of producing radicals), and it's showing 0 signs of slowing down. It's actually showing a ton of signs of speeding up.

[Milla4Prez63 678]

This is terrible, insane that something like this happened so close to home. My thoughts go out to the families of the victims. Also, fuck anyone trying to use this to push an agenda against any group of people as a whole. A nutjob killed a lot of people, direct the hate towards him.

[BwareDWare94 723]

A muslim walks into a gay bar.

 

The bartender asks him, what'll it be?

 

"Shots for everyone."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously though, it absolutely sickens me that people are refusing to look at this shit with clear eyes. It was an extremist and radical Muslim hate crime. How can the LGBT community defend Islam any further after this?

 

Also a great time to see the moral peacocks who come out and bitch about mourning the dead and showing respect today. Like, come on, you didn't fucking know any of them, stop pretending to be on the moral high ground and talking shit about people who are pushing for a legitimate discussion about radical Islamic terrorism.

 

Or the folks who think banning guns entirely will solve the problem. Like prohibition ever worked out well.

 

Hey look, it's THAT guy.

[OSUViking 505]

Don't know how true this is, but I saw on the news that he had been investigated by the FBI before for terrorist sympathies. They even said he had been interviewed by a few agents. Again, don't know if that's true and haven't really bothered to check it.

 

But if it is true, how the fuck is he able to buy a gun legally? This is why background checks are necessary. You know, after I got out of the mental hospital, I asked my psychiatrist if I could theoretically get a gun (I had always expressed interest in owning a handgun for a shooting range in the future). She said that not only would it personally be unwise for me to get one, but that I likely wouldn't be able to procure a gun from a legitimate gun shop because of my hospitalization. So, why is it that a guy like me, who has struggled immensely with mental illness but has also done exceedingly well in school and has no violent history whatsoever, can't buy a gun through normal means (I supposedly could go get one at a gun show if I really wanted), but a guy who may have been investigated for terrorist sympathies was able to get one legally?

I can't believe people oppose basic background checks on all gun purchases. There is literally no way you can justify this. I really hate when people immediately politicize these for gun arguments immediately after they happen, but this is just so fucking ridiculous. If I can't buy a gun because I wouldn't pass a background check at a gun shop, there's no way in hell that someone who (maybe) was investigated by the FBI should be allowed anywhere near one.

 

Of course, there's the possibility that either the news was (unknowingly, hopefully) false information or that they were intentionally exaggerating information for gun debate purposes. If that's the case, then I don't know what my response has to do with the tragedy. I hope I'm wrong and that this guy wasn't just allowed to get a gun even with that history. That would be downright pathetic.

 

EDIT:

 

 

Yeah, he was on a terrorist watch list. I'll try to look how long ago that was and how long ago he bought the guns, but no way he should have been allowed legal possession of those weapons (frankly if he legally bought them before being investigated I don't think it's unreasonable to confiscate them).

Edited June 13, 2016 by OSUViking

[BwareDWare94 723]

The truth is, 150 years from now the NRA will be remembered as its own kind of terrorist organization. They may not directly hurt anybody, but through their vehement opposition to common sense gun control reform, they directly allow people to continue to get hurt. No amount of legislation will end gun violence, but it's time to make the purchase process more difficult and make illegal purchases and sales automatic 15 year or more sentences.

 

We need to give people incentive to not do these things.

[Cherry 1,302]

Let me clarify. I have no issue with moderate Muslims in first world countries. The ideologies of personal wellness and morality are fine by me. The issue is that in a third world nation with a shit power structure and an extreme faith in Islam, you see radicalization way too often. Islam is not the problem. Radical Islamist practitioners are the problem.

 

The joke is funny. If it weren't I wouldn't have posted it. Take it or leave it. Don't sit and be all butthurt about it when you don't know anyone who was killed or wounded in the shooting. You have no connection to them and shouldn't feel offended by a joke.

 

A lot of that post was anger but my argument I intend to make still stands. Was mainly pissed off by the media and everyone I know trying to dodge the fact it was an extremist and just cry about the deaths of members of the LGBT community.

 

We can debate the effectiveness of gun control. I'm by all means down for it.

 

A large section of the LGBT community is incredibly welcoming to Islam and sees it as diversity. They view it as their American friend who wears a hijab and reads Harry Potter, not as a jihadist who beheads people in the desert of a foreign nation. Many mild Islamic practitioners still believe in radical ideas. In nations like Saudi Arabia women can be sold off by their fathers and be beaten horrendously by cruel husbands, to just name one awful example. It's wrong to characterize third world Islam as anything but wrong.

 

I've seen a large push for total outlawing of all firearms lately. Everyone is screaming gun control (it's trending on Twitter today IIRC). That doesn't solve the problem though. They just buy black market.

 

The issue is that we refuse to identify him for what he was. An extremist who turned to ISIS and radical Islam and decided to kill for it.

 

"I want to be tough and vigilant" somehow translates to FUCK THOSE GAYS I WAS RIGHT FUCK MUSLIMS.

 

A platform is based entirely on the results of events. If terrorism has been an event, it will be used as a platform.

[Cherry 1,302]

The truth is, 150 years from now the NRA will be remembered as its own kind of terrorist organization. They may not directly hurt anybody, but through their vehement opposition to common sense gun control reform, they directly allow people to continue to get hurt. No amount of legislation will end gun violence, but it's time to make the purchase process more difficult and make illegal purchases and sales automatic 15 year or more sentences.

 

We need to give people incentive to not do these things.

Common sense gun control is a hell of a buzz word. What is "common sense" gun control. No automatics? No semi-autos? No pistols or rifles due to how they can still be used massively in gang violence. I mean it's just common sense!

 

Taking away 15 years of someones life and making them unable to ever hold a good job again is not the way to deal with illegal gun sales.

[RazorStar 4,025]

Making sure people need to be tested, can be responsible with a gun, that they have some form of government issued identification proving they are allowed to carry a gun. If you're flagged as a terrorist or terrorist sympathizer there should be no reason why you would be allowed to purchase a gun. If you have a criminal record, depending on the severity of the crime you should never be allowed a firearm or be on a probation period. Things like that. Concealed Carry should never be a thing, if you are seen with a weapon and you aren't authorized to carry it or aren't in a shooting range or the like, you should be arrested for endangerment. Most people who buy guns, just do it as a collection thing and will never hurt another person with it, they may never ever fire it. You make people buy a license, take a safety course, and stop glorifying guns in commercials, and you've already done a lot. You can't make this mass shooting problem go away but you have to do something to start taking preventative measures.

 

And as for the LGBT community and their thoughts on Islam, it's different for different people but for the gay people I know, they don't like Islam because they see it as a religion of violence and find the way they treat people who are not hetero males as abhorrent. They have the fear that if they lived in an Islam country, they would be killed. There are some people (SJW's and the like) who will not see fit to blame the religion because they seem to hate everything about the white man and in the end it just becomes a different sort of ignorance bred out of hatred. But that's not what we're talking about here so I'mma drop it.

[Bangy 19]

Let me clarify. I have no issue with moderate Muslims in first world countries. The ideologies of personal wellness and morality are fine by me. The issue is that in a third world nation with a shit power structure and an extreme faith in Islam, you see radicalization way too often. Islam is not the problem. Radical Islamist practitioners are the problem.

 

The joke is funny. If it weren't I wouldn't have posted it. Take it or leave it. Don't sit and be all butthurt about it when you don't know anyone who was killed or wounded in the shooting. You have no connection to them and shouldn't feel offended by a joke.

 

A lot of that post was anger but my argument I intend to make still stands. Was mainly pissed off by the media and everyone I know trying to dodge the fact it was an extremist and just cry about the deaths of members of the LGBT community.

 

We can debate the effectiveness of gun control. I'm by all means down for it.

 

A large section of the LGBT community is incredibly welcoming to Islam and sees it as diversity. They view it as their American friend who wears a hijab and reads Harry Potter, not as a jihadist who beheads people in the desert of a foreign nation. Many mild Islamic practitioners still believe in radical ideas. In nations like Saudi Arabia women can be sold off by their fathers and be beaten horrendously by cruel husbands, to just name one awful example. It's wrong to characterize third world Islam as anything but wrong.

 

I've seen a large push for total outlawing of all firearms lately. Everyone is screaming gun control (it's trending on Twitter today IIRC). That doesn't solve the problem though. They just buy black market.

 

The issue is that we refuse to identify him for what he was. An extremist who turned to ISIS and radical Islam and decided to kill for it.

 

"I want to be tough and vigilant" somehow translates to FUCK THOSE GAYS I WAS RIGHT FUCK MUSLIMS.

 

A platform is based entirely on the results of events. If terrorism has been an event, it will be used as a platform.

 

Dude it isn't about if you knew a victim of this or not, people died in an unprovoked attack by a radicalist have some respect. I've said some dumb shit but this is a whole level of dumb

 

It seems this was a person who was newly radicalised as he claimed alligence to IS and not it's leader. It was also an attack on the LGBT community. Just because it now seems to have been a terrorist attack doesn't mean it wasn't also an attack on the LGBT community. Just because it was a muslim attacker why should they go against that community? A community where it is probably one of the worse situation for gay and lesbian men and women to be in who will need the support the most?

 

I honestly believe there needs to be some reform on your gun laws, things like this seem to be happening on a more regular basis. The whole black market thing is something that is always going to be around but right now you can have a guy who is on the FBI watch list still walk into a gun shop without any real quaility checks and produce something on this scale, it means your system is broken.

Edited June 13, 2016 by Bangy

[BwareDWare94 723]

Common sense gun control is a hell of a buzz word. What is "common sense" gun control. No automatics? No semi-autos? No pistols or rifles due to how they can still be used massively in gang violence. I mean it's just common sense!

 

Taking away 15 years of someones life and making them unable to ever hold a good job again is not the way to deal with illegal gun sales.

 

 

Just because a solution isn't one specific thing doesn't mean that we can't discuss options. Also, if you're going to illegally purchase or sell a firearm, why is 15 years such a crazy sentence? We put people in jail for much less.

[Cherry 1,302]

 

 

Just because a solution isn't one specific thing doesn't mean that we can't discuss options. Also, if you're going to illegally purchase or sell a firearm, why is 15 years such a crazy sentence? We put people in jail for much less.

"We put people in for less, so a mandatory 15-year sentence isn't that bad."

 

Purchasing an illegal firearm doesn't kill people.

[BwareDWare94 723]

"We put people in for less, so a mandatory 15-year sentence isn't that bad."

 

Purchasing an illegal firearm doesn't kill people.

 

Are you an NRA representative? Asking for a friend.

[Cherry 1,302]

 

Are you an NRA representative? Asking for a friend.

Are you a prison owner? Asking for a friend.

 

 

Get a hold of yourself Bware. 15 fucking years and essentially stripped of citizenship by not being able to get a decent job or vote. For buying a gun under the table. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of dollars it would cost to care for someone in prison. Is that really a good decision to start throwing our tax money at caring for a guy who bought a gun without the proper papers?

[Bangy 19]

Are you a prison owner? Asking for a friend.

 

 

Get a hold of yourself Bware. 15 fucking years and essentially stripped of citizenship by not being able to get a decent job or vote. For buying a gun under the table. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of dollars it would cost to care for someone in prison. Is that really a good decision to start throwing our tax money at caring for a guy who bought a gun without the proper papers?

 

Call me crazy but buying a gun "under the table" would still be a criminal activity. Therefore the punnishment it holds is deserved, then again you guys have the 2nd amendment if im correct that relates to this craziness so I don't know.

[Milla4Prez63 678]

Stop with gun law BS, this man was clearly radical and any sort of gun laws would not have stopped him. I'm tired of hearing this stuff after every shooting. Bad things happen, it sucks but that is the way of life. Let's stop letting our fear of bad things help give the government more control over the people.

[RazorStar 4,025]

Please don't underestimate the lengths people will go to be lazy. Putting safeguards in place so it isn't SO FUCKING EASY for people to get murdered is the responsible thing to do. Yes people will still die, yes it will still be tragic, but making gun violence harder to achieve is well within the realms of possibility.

 

The suicide rate in Britain used to be incredibly high because people could just stick their head in an oven and suffocate themselves. Did the British government decide not to do anything about it because people will just kill themselves anyways? No, they changed the laws on how those ovens could be manufactured so it wasn't as easy for people to kill themselves, and the suicide rate dropped immensely. You may not have been able to prevent this attack, but that's the wrong way of thinking about it. Take the steps to reduce the chances of another shooting happening in the future.

 

Because I'll bet you by the end of this week there will be at least one other mass shooting in america. Maybe they won't match the body count, but there will still be people killed because it's just so fucking easy for anyone to get a gun and use it to harm another person.

[Milla4Prez63 678]

I agree that people in general are lazy, but someone who is radical enough to murder 50 people is likely more motivated than the average person. I'm not against potentially making it a little harder to get a gun but I don't want the government telling people what they can and can't have either. This country needs less laws and less government control, not more.

[RazorStar 4,025]

The worst I'm suggesting is mildly inconveniencing responsible gun owners, and getting firearms out of the hands of people who are proven to be not responsible enough to have one. Due to the proliferation of weapons in the States, I can't imagine any change being a swift cure-all, but you can bet it'll make a difference in the long run. There should be a burden of proof on the owner of a gun to be responsible with it. The same way there is a burden of proof to be responsible with a car, or to hunt and fish. It just has to start somewhere.

[Milla4Prez63 678]

I don't think we are really arguing the same point really. I'm not against more steps to having a gun, just tired of the outlaw guns kooks using a tragedy to push their agenda.