The Modern Day School System

[Thanatos 2,847]

I think this probably belongs here and its a discussion we haven't had on here yet.

 

I'll let this video get the ball rolling if anyone else wants to talk about it.

 

Edited October 5, 2016 by Thanatos

[Cherry 1,302]

This is a large part of why I'm against federally mandated or even state mandated practices in schools. It's impossible to expect every student across the US to perform at the exact same level regardless of wealth or location. A student in the backwoods of Montana isn't going to understand the same stuff as a student in suburban New York. A student in the ghetto isn't going to be able to take standardized tests like a rich kid. Each school should do what accommodates the education of their own students. We should also encourage our youth to follow their goals regardless of what society expects. I can't even begin to count how many times I heard teachers telling my fellow classmates in lower level classes that they should transfer to a technical school or do something under an apprenticeship. Engineering. Plumbing. Electric. Manual labor jobs that would be awful for someone who doesn't enjoy them. Sure there are some people who are less intelligent and wouldn't be able to do something that takes in a high income, but they should never be encouraged into settling for less. Anything that you want to do is attainable if you have the drive and the passion.

Edited October 5, 2016 by 7-9

[Wentz World 5]

Modern day schooling does very little to prepare you for the real world. Schools shouldn't be judged on test scores and graduation rates. Your making it so schools pass kids that shouldn't. It's turning into whatever looks good on paper.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Wentz World

[RazorStar 4,025]

The education system is an outdated farce based on the old factory model. The only thing it does is teach kids how to swallow someone else's bullshit. It doesn't prepare kids in the slightest for higher education, rarely offers vocational opportunities or teach kids how to learn. It completely sucks the joy and discovering out of learning new things and understanding different viewpoints, which is complete bullshit.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

The question always comes up: what would we fill the void with that is left by standardized testing if we did away with it?

 

The answer is simple: whatever the kids want. Let them be agents in their own education. Make high school more like college. Let kids pick their own classes outside of the basics. Schools always say kids need to learn to act like adults, yea? So let's treat them like adults and let them choose what they want to learn about. And how about we let them think more about what they read instead of letting everything be passed on as fact?

 

Kids are really smart. They would enjoy school a lot more if it made sense to them and made them feel like they had some power over their own education. Instead of being fed answers, they are more than capable of thinking of answers on their own. This is possible in almost every class. Maybe math will always need the same basic format of a classroom structure (but Steven pls correct me if you see how this can be false). But other classes could benefit greatly from a more discussion-based curriculum.

 

You can still focus on specific topics. For example, instead of making kids memorize arbitrary historical dates (such as what year the Civil War started), have them talk about the factors that led up to the war, the details of the battles, the immediate consequences of the war and the Reconstruction period. Also talk about what was going on culturally in the US at this time. How did the war affect the types of literature that was being written? This might sound like some really intricate, high level thinking for young kids... but it would be a lot easier once they got used to it.

 

Education means a lot of things to a lot of people. But it all starts with opening minds and keeping them open. Our current education system fails on both accounts.

[blotsfan 2,112]

school was invented to dumb you down and teach you to obey.

 

nothing you learn is of use to an open,creative mind.

 

2Deep4Me

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Part of my job when I'm not slaving away in architecture school is out reaching to kids and speaking to their parents (ones who didn't go to college) about getting their kids to college.

 

I always ask their parents if they ever thought about going to college and they always say "no, I'm way too stupid to go to college"... I always think to myself, "oh boy, if they ever sat foot on a campus for an extended period, their opinion would change pretty fast".

 

The standardised test stuff and the grading system is all kinds of fucked up, and makes people think they are inadequate simply because they suck at math. It's really depressing to think about, actually.

 

If I wasn't on my phone right now id do a long post with opinions on how to improve it, but just thought I'd throw in my $.2...

[oochymp 2,393]

I'm with Sarge on the customization route, in addition to letting students do what they want you also would have teachers teaching more of what they want, which is what makes classes interesting. Standardized testing is terrible because it handcuffs teachers to teaching specific things and it builds a mindset in students that they're just learning so that they can pass a test. It's particularly terrible for history because it forces a focus on the who, what, when, and where that are easy to structure multiple choice questions around, but loses the most important and interesting part, the why. I'd also like to see more of an emphasis on learning trades for a few reasons, first I don't think everyone needs college, and second it would help students learn the practical applications of the math they're forced to learn (which gets back to my point about learning only for the sake of tests).

[Wentz World 5]

I'm with Sarge on the customization route, in addition to letting students do what they want you also would have teachers teaching more of what they want, which is what makes classes interesting. Standardized testing is terrible because it handcuffs teachers to teaching specific things and it builds a mindset in students that they're just learning so that they can pass a test. It's particularly terrible for history because it forces a focus on the who, what, when, and where that are easy to structure multiple choice questions around, but loses the most important and interesting part, the why. I'd also like to see more of an emphasis on learning trades for a few reasons, first I don't think everyone needs college, and second it would help students learn the practical applications of the math they're forced to learn (which gets back to my point about learning only for the sake of tests).

I fully support the learning of trade jobs. Like you said not everyone needs college. Even if you don't end up with a job in the field. You learn a valuable trade for every day life.

[SteVo+ 3,702]

Ok, I've been waiting to dive into this thread. For now, I'm gonna get my feet wet. I plan on responding to everyone's posts at some point.

 

As many of you know, I teach mathematics at Fort Lauderdale High School, one of the better high schools¹ in Broward County, which is the 7th largest school district in the country. We have a very diverse student and faculty population, so I like to think my school is fairly representative of America (that's an opinion).

 

Let me be clear on something: while I am proud of my job, I had no part in the modern U.S. school system and have no interest in defending it. I have every intention to point out its defects, its strengths, and some popular misconceptions.

 

¹ http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/florida/districts/broward-county-public-schools-112471 In this list, we are ranked 12th in Broward County. If that still seems low, notice how many technical and charter schools are ahead of us, and note that we rank 92nd in the massive state of Florida.

 

 

Overall Thoughts on the Specifics of Teaching

If you asked me to describe my job as succinctly as possible, I'd say...

 

I love it, but it drives me crazy.

 

The actual teaching is great. I'm fortunate because I teach upper level classes (Pre-Calculus, AP Calculus, etc.). I feel it's important to point out that not all teachers experience that. Some are stuck teaching a full load of low-IQ, low-motivation students a curriculum that's way beyond them (more on this in a minute). However, teaching upper level classes takes work. If you want to do it right, you have to put in the time, and the hours are inconsistent. Some days I'll leave early, around 3:30, thinking I'm ahead of the game; then, the next day, I realize how much I have to do to prepare for the next couple days, and I'm there until 6 or 7.

 

The act of teaching itself is also very emotionally exhausting. Investing in kids requires an incredible amount of patience on a daily basis. It's very rewarding but very draining. When I come home at the end of the day, I barely feel as if I have enough brain function for a game of checkers.

 

 

Problems with the System [Stream-of-Consciousness]

• Like police officers, like firefighters, the low pay/benefits of being a public school teacher makes it a less attractive job. So, the best and brightest college graduates are never actively seeking a job in education.
• Decisions in curriculum are made by state or federal legislators who have never stepped foot in a classroom as an educator.
• College entrance has become so competitive, high achieving students must endure an incredible amount of stress to optimize their resume and get into their dream college.
• The emphasis on standardized testing restricts opportunities for students to see how what they learn will translate into real life.
• Hardly any vocational opportunities are available for students who will enter the workforce after high school.

 

 

Alright. For now, I'd like to respond to a few posts with stone cold facts.

 

 

 

I mainly want to respond to the notion that the school system only serves to dumb down young men and women, teaching them simply to conform to the world around them and become an "obedient, soul-dead, conformist member of the American consumer culture" (George Carlin). While the system may accomplish this in theory, let me tell you teachers are fighting it on a daily basis.

 

We are doing everything we can to empower students, make them question things they hear, develop their sense of individuality, develop their self-confidence. We are trying to prepare students for the world ahead of them, and while the system requires that we spend many of our hours preparing them for a standardized test, we squeeze in plenty of our own personal instruction here and there.

 

In fact, one of the biggest hurdles in accomplishing this is not the school system; it is the students themselves. Far too many students are more interested in their smart phones than anything a teacher has to say. They'd much rather stare at their phone screens for 90 minutes than learn something, which is why many teachers employ a no-phone policy (I, personally, do not). Now, some of you may point to this as another example of school restricting students' individuality, as if allowing them to spend all day on Twitter and Snapchat will spur intellectual growth. Actually, we are trying to prepare them for the real world where they, sadly, will be on someone else's time.

 

Like it or not, the world is not a place where everyone gets to experience a personalized, carefree environment that feeds their creativity on their timetable. As long as we need a job, some of us will have jobs we dislike. Have a cup of coffee and deal with it.

 

If you're an employer looking for a part-time employee, who are you more likely to hire: the kid who can't string five minutes of productivity together without checking his phone, or the kid who always gets there on time and gets his job done?

 

While I'm on this subject, I should probably get this out of the way:

 

The education system is an outdated farce based on the old factory model. The only thing it does is teach kids how to swallow someone else's bullshit.

 

Extremely useful real-world skills, no?

 

Razor, I'll be responding to the rest of your comment in another post.

---------------------------------------------

Continuing re: PhilElliot's post...

 

Like any profession, there are good teachers and bad teachers. But, with few exceptions, all teachers are good people. They teach because they care, because they want to make a positive difference.

 

A few other quick notes on that picture:

• Public schools rarely have dress codes.
• High school students don't walk in lines.
• Few classrooms place an emphasis on "silence and order."
• "Set times for walking/eating" sounds like work, doesn't it?

 

 

Maybe math will always need the same basic format of a classroom structure (but Steven pls correct me if you see how this can be false). But other classes could benefit greatly from a more discussion-based curriculum.

 

You can still focus on specific topics. For example, instead of making kids memorize arbitrary historical dates (such as what year the Civil War started), have them talk about the factors that led up to the war, the details of the battles, the immediate consequences of the war and the Reconstruction period. Also talk about what was going on culturally in the US at this time. How did the war affect the types of literature that was being written? This might sound like some really intricate, high level thinking for young kids... but it would be a lot easier once they got used to it.

 

Education means a lot of things to a lot of people. But it all starts with opening minds and keeping them open. Our current education system fails on both accounts.

 

Regarding class structure...

Yes, math is, sadly, a subject that is most effectively taught on a repetitive schedule (learn content, do practice problems, go over problems, repeat). I try to mix things up when I can, incorporating all sorts of miscellaneous techniques into my lessons (groupwork, projects, technology-based learning as opposed to lecture), but the always looming standardized test only allows for so much leeway in terms of timing.

 

However, let me tell you I've observed some of my colleagues in other subjects, and I'm almost always blown away. Our English and social studies teachers, particularly, are doing an incredible job of shifting away from the antiquated lecture structure. Student-led discussions occur frequently, and they're always done well.

 

I should also mention that mixing up your teaching structure is something we, as teachers, get evaluated on. So, the system discourages us from monotony.

 

Regarding high-level thinking...

The system has actually shifted dramatically towards critical thinking for a while now. Since you threw out some history examples, I'll do the same. On a standardized history test, students will definitely be required to memorize dates of important events (as they should--what good is it to think Martin Luther King Jr. was a prominent figure during the Civil War?), but the tests go much further.

 

This was a free response question on this year's AP World History exam:

 

Analyze similarities and differences in the causes of TWO of the following revolutions: American Revolution (1775-1781), French Revolution (1789-1799), Haitian Revolution (1791-1803).

 

That's incredibly broad, allowing students plenty of flexibility to demonstrate what they know. Here's one a little more specific, from this year's AP United States History exam:

 

Evaluate the extent to which United States participation in the First World War marked a turning point in the nation's role in world affairs. In the development of your argument, explain what changed and what stayed the same from the period immediately before the war to the period immediately following it.

 

-----------------------------------------

 

More to come. I definitely want to structure my next post around preparing kids for the future (employment, higher education, etc.), because there's an awful lot there to dissect. For now, this teacher needs to eat some food and watch Monday Night Football.

[oochymp 2,393]

Thanks for the response SteVo, I haven't been in a high school classroom since I was in high school, so it's great to hear from someone who has on this topic. I will say while I can't speak for everyone when I talk about standardized tests I'm not talking about AP Exams, those actually do a pretty good job of promoting critical thinking, I'm talking about exams that everyone is required to take. I don't know Florida schools so I don't know what the comparable thing is there, but Virginia has Standards of Learning (appropriately acronymed SOLs) that were hundreds of multiple choice questions and designed so that even the dumbest students can theoretically pass, they were really a waste of time for the more advanced students.

Edited October 11, 2016 by oochymp

[Sarge+ 3,436]

This is exactly the kind of stuff we should be talking about, instead of the 1001 ways to make the other person look like a bigger piece of shit aka the 2016 election.

[Cherry 1,302]

What's your opinion on students using different ways from the norm to solve math problems, Stevo? For instance I could never do long division when I was younger in a method that was taught, so I simply multiplied the numerator to fit the denominator. I got scolded to hell and back through my time in school for using methods like that even though they worked.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

Steven knows math. He has the best math.

[Bucman 891]

Ohio has the Ohio Graduation test or did. When I was in HS you had from 10th grade on to pass or you didn't graduate.

[SteVo+ 3,702]

This is a large part of why I'm against federally mandated or even state mandated practices in schools. This speaks to a larger issue that I addressed in my last post. The lawmakers at the federal and state level have no education experience, but they make all the big decisions. This is exactly as problematic as it sounds.

 

It's impossible to expect every student across the US to perform at the exact same level regardless of wealth or location. A student in the backwoods of Montana isn't going to understand the same stuff as a student in suburban New York. A student in the ghetto isn't going to be able to take standardized tests like a rich kid. Each school should do what accommodates the education of their own students. In theory, this sounds perfect, but the problem with it is the lack of accountability. How can colleges validate the accomplishments behind a high school diploma without normalized data? And I'm seriously asking here, not defending the system. I hate standardized testing as much as anyone.

 

We should also encourage our youth to follow their goals regardless of what society expects. I can't even begin to count how many times I heard teachers telling my fellow classmates in lower level classes that they should transfer to a technical school or do something under an apprenticeship. Engineering. Plumbing. Electric. Manual labor jobs that would be awful for someone who doesn't enjoy them. Sure there are some people who are less intelligent and wouldn't be able to do something that takes in a high income, but they should never be encouraged into settling for less. Anything that you want to do is attainable if you have the drive and the passion. I agree with this to a certain extent, but not wholeheartedly. I met a lot of people in college who embraced this idea. They all wanted to become actors, screenwriters, directors, etc. They believed so deeply that all they had to do was work hard and their pursuit would eventually be rewarded. Sorry, but it's just not true. Should we be empowering students to pursue any career they want? Yes. But the notion that anything you want is attainable through hard work is, frankly, a dangerous one. You sound like a fantasy-minded liberal, Cherry!

 

Cherry, I wanted to respond to your comments individually, so I inserted my thoughts in blue.

 

 

Modern day schooling does very little to prepare you for the real world. Schools shouldn't be judged on test scores and graduation rates. Your making it so schools pass kids that shouldn't. It's turning into whatever looks good on paper.

 

See my response to PhilElliot's post on real-world preparation in school.

 

Legitimately asking for ideas: if not test scores and graduation rates, what should schools be judged on? Because you're absolutely right: it becomes all about the bottom line. There's an unofficial policy at my school (and I assume at many other high schools) that teachers are not allowed to fail seniors. I've given seniors F's before, but only if they didn't need another math credit. I have multiple seniors this year who, quite frankly, do not deserve to pass my class. But they need another math credit. Am I going to fail them and prevent them from graduating? Absolutely not. I won't go into further detail, but that would get me in hot water with administration rather quickly.

 

Your "good on paper" point is spot on. To be fair, though, schools don't really have a choice. Their funding is based on how well they meet various criterion, so why wouldn't they do everything they can to maximize funding? One personal example: in Florida, school grades are based on a complicated formula, but one factor is "participation in AP classes" (the percentage of student population enrolled in AP classes). So, they shove any kid with half a pulse into AP Calculus. One of the biggest struggles for me in teaching that class is remediating students who don't have the proper algebra foundation and shouldn't be in the class in the first place. All of this leads to, as you said, kids passing who shouldn't. It's gotten to the point where a high school diploma is essentially meaningless because anyone can get one.

 

Wow, that was a lot packed into a short comment. Well done, Wentz.

 

 

The education system is an outdated farce based on the old factory model. The only thing it does is teach kids how to swallow someone else's bullshit. It doesn't prepare kids in the slightest for higher education, rarely offers vocational opportunities or teach kids how to learn. It completely sucks the joy and discovering out of learning new things and understanding different viewpoints, which is complete bullshit.

 

I disagree that it doesn't prepare students for higher education. Actually, the upper level students at my school take a curriculum that is probably just as rigorous as what they will experience in college, when you factor in everything they do outside of class (college applications, extracurricular activities, etc.).

 

I agree that the system, on its face, is designed for boring, joyless learning. But believe me, teachers are fighting the good fight. And we have to, because you can only bore a class of 30-40 teenagers for so long before they start to turn on you.

 

 

The question always comes up: what would we fill the void with that is left by standardized testing if we did away with it?

 

The answer is simple: whatever the kids want. Let them be agents in their own education. Make high school more like college. Let kids pick their own classes outside of the basics. Schools always say kids need to learn to act like adults, yea? So let's treat them like adults and let them choose what they want to learn about. And how about we let them think more about what they read instead of letting everything be passed on as fact?

 

I love that idea except for what I said in response to Cherry about accountability. I'll stick to math for this explanation, since that's my wheelhouse.

 

If you want to pursue a math/science major in college, you're going to take calculus. If you want something else, you're still going to take college algebra. That's not changing no matter what the public school system does.

 

So, we have to work backwards. Configure the system however you want, but high school graduates need to leave high school with enough mathematical knowledge to succeed on whichever track they choose.

 

 

I'm with Sarge on the customization route, in addition to letting students do what they want you also would have teachers teaching more of what they want, which is what makes classes interesting. Standardized testing is terrible because it handcuffs teachers to teaching specific things and it builds a mindset in students that they're just learning so that they can pass a test. It's particularly terrible for history because it forces a focus on the who, what, when, and where that are easy to structure multiple choice questions around, but loses the most important and interesting part, the why. I'd also like to see more of an emphasis on learning trades for a few reasons, first I don't think everyone needs college, and second it would help students learn the practical applications of the math they're forced to learn (which gets back to my point about learning only for the sake of tests).

 

I agree with everything you said about standardized testing, so I'll just throw this out there, and it's something I've mentioned before: standardized testing itself could be a lot better, but the people who design the tests and write the questions are not educators, and they're probably not competent people in their field.

 

(To be clear, I'm talking about state-level standardized tests, not AP tests, which are made by College Board. You mentioned the difference in your next post, oochymp, so I wanted to point that out.)

 

Just to provide another clue as to how this all shakes down, here's a tale about textbooks. Without a doubt, the worst textbook available these days for AP Calculus is the one by Ron Larson. Stewart and Rogawski blow that guy away--more logical flow of material, higher quality problems, etc. So, which textbook is mandated for AP Calculus in Broward County? Larson, of course. Why? Because lobbyists associated with the publisher have lined the pockets of state lawmakers.

 

I suspect I'm rambling, so I guess what I'm getting at is letting teachers design the tests could lead to the courses themselves becoming more interesting. Teachers could craft the "tests" to involve more activity-based learning while being more customizable. In fact, teachers could do this during the summer and get paid for it! That would help cut down on the "Fuck teachers, they have summers off" sentiment that gets in the way of progress so often.

 

 

What's your opinion on students using different ways from the norm to solve math problems, Stevo? For instance I could never do long division when I was younger in a method that was taught, so I simply multiplied the numerator to fit the denominator. I got scolded to hell and back through my time in school for using methods like that even though they worked.

 

I'm totally ok with students using alternative methods as long as they get the right answer, and as long as their method will work for all problems of that type.

[Milla4Prez63 678]

Rick Sanchez said it best. School isn't a place for smart people.

[oochymp 2,393]

Just to provide another clue as to how this all shakes down, here's a tale about textbooks. Without a doubt, the worst textbook available these days for AP Calculus is the one by Ron Larson. Stewart and Rogawski blow that guy away--more logical flow of material, higher quality problems, etc. So, which textbook is mandated for AP Calculus in Broward County? Larson, of course. Why? Because lobbyists associated with the publisher have lined the pockets of state lawmakers.

oh, do we want to open the textbooks can of worms? talk about a racket

[BJORN 679]

2Deep4Me

That's what your mom said last night ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[blotsfan 2,112]

So you had sex with my mom, but you were bad at it? Congrats...

[Sarge+ 3,436]

 

you simply werent following orders. You were thinking for yourself. Thats a no-no in education.

the point of education is to make you subservient and dumb you down.

 

teachers dont teach shit..if you ask a question thats outside the lesson plan,they dont know what to say and you are bad for wasting time for the class

 

That's quite a generalization.

 

This doesn't happen in my class. I can't speak for Steven 100%, but I would venture a guess that it doesn't happen in his, either. Of course we are two totally different teachers in two different countries teaching two totally different subjects. I teach at an expensive, private language academy, while Steven teaches at a well-respected public school. Steven teaches math, and I teach English as a second language.

 

My field is such that questions outside the lesson plan are not only allowed but encouraged and expected.

[Cherry 1,302]

I'd agree that in most public schools and with most teachers you are simply passed over for the sake of time in the lesson plan. College has been great for being able to ask questions and legitimately learn though.

[Cherry 1,302]

 

only if it fits their agenda. You cant actually have a real differing opinion in college.

 

you are still learning what they tell you to learn.

 

repeating back what you read isnt really learning anything. Its just memorization.

the video in the science thread is a bunch of kids who were taught to be that stupid

Societal norms, sure. Colleges lean liberal. But I've definitely had an opportunity to voice my opinion as an avid fan of the free market and diehard conservative. Also, in classes like history I've been able to ask questions that were interesting to me that aren't typically part of the curriculum. I don't have to recite back BS like I'm in high school.

[Thanatos 2,847]

 

yes,of course its a generalization and a true one.

I've been through the system and so have all my friends. School in general does not encourage critical or independent thought that makes any sense. If you dont get good grades learning their stuff you are then branded as stupid or a failure. The fact is theres a reason no one likes going to a building every day being made to sit down and memorize crap that doesnt help you in any walk of life. Its actually incredibly normal to reject that but they have made school a legality that you must attend.

they call them learning institutions for a reason.

 

So because, what, a hundred people say so, this means something? You and your friends having a shared experience does not mean something when you apply it to an issue that affects everyone. It's completely inadmissible as evidence towards anything.

[SteVo+ 3,702]

you simply werent following orders. You were thinking for yourself. Thats a no-no in education.

the point of education is to make you subservient and dumb you down.

 

teachers dont teach shit..if you ask a question thats outside the lesson plan,they dont know what to say and you are bad for wasting time for the class

 

I suspect everything I'm about to type is a waste of energy, that your perspective is unwavering, that you won't listen to disagreement (and Thanatos is in the process of shredding you in the Science Hoax thread). But if you'd care to be enlightened, keep reading.

 

You seem to view schools as a prison-like setting devoid of color where teachers shout orders like drill sergeants and students walk around like expressionless robots. That's not at all true, and I don't know what else to tell you. You might find that sort of school in a music video, but not in reality.

 

Now, Sarge set me up to comment on my classroom specifically, so let me get his post in here:

 

This doesn't happen in my class. I can't speak for Steven 100%, but I would venture a guess that it doesn't happen in his, either. Of course we are two totally different teachers in two different countries teaching two totally different subjects. I teach at an expensive, private language academy, while Steven teaches at a well-respected public school. Steven teaches math, and I teach English as a second language.

 

My field is such that questions outside the lesson plan are not only allowed but encouraged and expected.

 

You're spot on. I go into a lesson with an objective in mind (Students will find relative extrema of functions by using derivatives.) but I don't let anyone tell me how to teach it. I try to deliver instruction as best I can, welcoming all inquiries from students, especially questions "outside the lesson plan," which occur frequently. Students in math are always asking variations of the "When will we use this..." question, to which I am happy to tell them where the particular math they are learning can be seen in education (linear algebra, differential equations, multivariable calculus) or in practice (engineering, programming, archetecture). Being able to answer questions beyond the lesson plan is part of being a good teacher.

 

Fun fact: most teachers hate lesson plans. They are how "the system" holds us accountable, because we need official records of what we teach on which days. They are a paperwork form of bookkeeping and we treat them as such. I can personally tell you I give my lesson plans the minimal amount of effort, understanding that a great plan anticipates flexibility, and many teachers do the same.

 

That being said, are there some teachers who just follow the lesson plans, who are unable to answer questions beyond their narrow range of knowledge? Of course. I believe I've stated this before, but it's worth repeating: there are good teachers and there are bad teachers. This shouldn't surprise anyone. There are good lawyers and bad lawyers. There are good cops and bad cops. There are good accountants and bad accountants. Why should teaching, as a profession, be different in this way?

 

 

only if it fits their agenda. You cant actually have a real differing opinion in college.

 

you are still learning what they tell you to learn.

 

repeating back what you read isnt really learning anything. Its just memorization.

the video in the science thread is a bunch of kids who were taught to be that stupid

 

There seems to be an interesting dichotomy behind your statements, Phil. You rail against the system for constricting and prohibiting all individuality, for only teaching things one way and never allowing for additional perspectives.

 

Believe it or not, there was a time not long ago when many agreed with you. So, education evolved. It evolved quite a bit, actually. You want to know what happens when you gear the system towards the extreme on your end of the spectrum?

 

You get idiots like in that video. Were those kids "taught to be stupid?" Yeah, maybe. But not because they were stripped of their identity or because they're regurgitating what teachers had them memorize. It's because they were coddled and told their opinions would always be valid, no matter how outlandish. Sorry, but that's not true.

 

If a student in my class says, "The Earth is flat," they are wrong. And I will gladly tell them so. Am I restricting their identity? Am I solidifying my own agenda? Am I preventing them from developing opinions? Am I invading their safe space? No, I am not.

 

The system (the one you seem to hate so much) has unfortunately been reinforcing this belief for a while, the notion that everyone's opinions have merit. And so teachers are fighting the good fight.

 

 

yes,of course its a generalization and a true one.

I've been through the system and so have all my friends. School in general does not encourage critical or independent thought that makes any sense. If you dont get good grades learning their stuff you are then branded as stupid or a failure. The fact is theres a reason no one likes going to a building every day being made to sit down and memorize crap that doesnt help you in any walk of life. Its actually incredibly normal to reject that but they have made school a legality that you must attend.

they call them learning institutions for a reason.

 

but if you want to believe you are green female unicorn in a man's body...they want you to be this stupid. You are easier to control then.

 

I find that generalzation carelessly broad and offensive to me as a teacher, but I'll do my best to respond intellectually instead of emotionally.

 

Actually, my response to that comment has been spread out among my posts in this thread, though I doubt you have much interest in pursuing them. There is, however, one sentence in that nonsense that must be addressed immediately.

 

I've been through the system and so have all my friends.

 

This, ladies and gentlemen, is the problem. If I could narrow down all of education's biggest issues to 3 or 4 sentences, this one would make the cut.

 

We've all been through the public school system, so surely we are experts on education and how it should be operated.

 

No, we are not. Now, does going through the system as a student grant you insight? Absolutely. And it's always important to consider the perspective of students in discussions like this. But assuming we are qualified to make decisions about the educational system simply because we've been through one side of it is dangerous. And unfortunately, it's how our state and federal lawmakers see it. Of course they know what to do about education, because they've been students! Let me tell you something about teaching.

 

You've never come home after a long day of teaching, shocked at how mentally drained you are.

You've never been home around 8pm grading tests, feeling an overwhelming sense of failure because the grades are terrible.

You've never had to give that same class a speech, telling them with no doubt in your voice that they're going to turn it around.

You've never had a student thank you for "saving them" educationally.

You've never had to calm a girl having an anxiety attack in the middle of your class.

You've never had a boy with depression say your class provided him with relief, and that having you as a teacher for two years might have saved his life.

You've never had a senior reflect on his high school career and assure you he will never forget you.

 

All of the above have happened to me this school year, in the past ten weeks.

 

Don't you dare tell me you know what it's like to be a teacher. Don't you dare categorize me in as a cog in the broken machine. Don't you dare diminish a noble profession with ignorant generalizations and an offensively jaded worldview.

 

It is obvious, Phil, that our education system has failed you, and for that I am sorry.