How good (or bad) is Joe Flacco

[BwareDWare94 723]

Flacco is much more clutch than Ben? lolok

 

Umm...have you watched the past two seasons? I understand that you think Ben is light years ahead of Flacco, but he really isn't. Flacco has closed the gap, considerably, and could very easily overtake Ben with another good season and playoff run.

 

Realize that part of the reason Pittsburgh missed the playoffs is Ben throwing bad picks at the end of two games. I'll give him a break on Brandon Carr's interception being a great play, but Mike Wallace wasn't open on that play. It was dumb to throw in the first place.

 

Not that a couple of games should define Ben, but you need to stop acting like Joe Flacco is a scrub.

[seanbrock 1,684]

Umm...have you watched the past two seasons? I understand that you think Ben is light years ahead of Flacco, but he really isn't. Flacco has closed the gap, considerably, and could very easily overtake Ben with another good season and playoff run.

 

Realize that part of the reason Pittsburgh missed the playoffs is Ben throwing bad picks at the end of two games. I'll give him a break on Brandon Carr's interception being a great play, but Mike Wallace wasn't open on that play. It was dumb to throw in the first place.

 

Not that a couple of games should define Ben, but you need to stop acting like Joe Flacco is a scrub.

Just watch the two of them play. If you can't tell simply by the eye test Ben is the better QB then you just don't know shit about football to be frank. Stats aside even though statistically Ben is far and away more efficient and consistent than Flacco. Ben is a warrior. One of the toughest QB's that's ever played the game. His drive for a game winning TOUCHDOWN, not a FG but a TOUCHDOWN in the Super Bowl was one of the most clutch performances by a QB in the super bowl of all time. 88 yards in a minute and the drive started with a holding penalty. Flacco had better numbers than Ben in his super bowl, but that's it. his WR's absolutely went up and got all the prayers he threw up from the WC all the way to the Super Bowl. Flacco isn't a scrub. I even said he's a top ten QB, but after the top 5 or 6 guys there is a SUBSTANTIAL drop off.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Oh God... The clutch word popped up...

 

There's almost no reason for Flacco to be ahead of Ben. Just no way yo, Ben has probably entrenched himself at the #5 spot.

 

I'd argue that he and Ryan are in the same tier lower then Ben and Eli at this point. The highest I could see him go is #6.

[RazorStar 4,025]

I cover my dick in clutch sauce...

[BwareDWare94 723]

Just watch the two of them play. If you can't tell simply by the eye test Ben is the better QB then you just don't know shit about football to be frank. Stats aside even though statistically Ben is far and away more efficient and consistent than Flacco. Ben is a warrior. One of the toughest QB's that's ever played the game. His drive for a game winning TOUCHDOWN, not a FG but a TOUCHDOWN in the Super Bowl was one of the most clutch performances by a QB in the super bowl of all time. 88 yards in a minute and the drive started with a holding penalty. Flacco had better numbers than Ben in his super bowl, but that's it. his WR's absolutely went up and got all the prayers he threw up from the WC all the way to the Super Bowl. Flacco isn't a scrub. I even said he's a top ten QB, but after the top 5 or 6 guys there is a SUBSTANTIAL drop off.

 

All I said is that Flacco has closed the gap, and he has.

 

And knock it off with the "threw up prayers" nonsense. You make it sound like he just lofted it straight up in the air over and over again. That is not the case. He made tremendous throw after tremendous throw, and a couple of these "loft" passes fit into that category. The bomb to Jacoby Jones in the Divisional Round was brilliant simply because he had to get it over the safety.

[seanbrock 1,684]

All I said is that Flacco has closed the gap, and he has.

 

And knock it off with the "threw up prayers" nonsense. You make it sound like he just lofted it straight up in the air over and over again. That is not the case. He made tremendous throw after tremendous throw, and a couple of these "loft" passes fit into that category. The bomb to Jacoby Jones in the Divisional Round was brilliant simply because he had to get it over the safety.

I call bullshit. It'd be one thing if he was hitting perfect back shoulder fades like Brett Favre was a couple years ago to Sydney Rice. He was throwing it up for grabs and guys like Boldin were routinely coming down with them. Yes he made some great throws, but that's Flacco. He also made some bad lucky throws. Did you SEE the way Chris Culliver was playing? Did you SEE IT? The throw you're talking about to Jacoby Jones over Moore is not as brilliant as you make it seem. He saw the awful angle Moore took and he made a great throw but ended up being pretty wide open. The fact that he had to throw it that far and across the field was impressive. Can't take that away from him, but it's a play that any QB with comparable arm strength makes 9 times out of 10.

[housemd 338]

I was joking.

 

1. Aaron Rodgers

2. Peyton Manning

3. Tom Brady

4. Drew Brees

5. Eli Manning

 

I would probably have Joe at 6 though.

Wh...what? You called Ben and Ryan in top 5 a nonsense,but the only nonsense I see here is Eli Manning in top 5.

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

I call bullshit. It'd be one thing if he was hitting perfect back shoulder fades like Brett Favre was a couple years ago to Sydney Rice. He was throwing it up for grabs and guys like Boldin were routinely coming down with them. Yes he made some great throws, but that's Flacco. He also made some bad lucky throws. Did you SEE the way Chris Culliver was playing? Did you SEE IT? The throw you're talking about to Jacoby Jones over Moore is not as brilliant as you make it seem. He saw the awful angle Moore took and he made a great throw but ended up being pretty wide open. The fact that he had to throw it that far and across the field was impressive. Can't take that away from him, but it's a play that any QB with comparable arm strength makes 9 times out of 10.

 

I think most of the guys on here can agree with this explanation.

[BwareDWare94 723]

I think this thread comes down to some of us just not wanting to give Joe Flacco any real credit. He had a big-time, ELITE postseason. He may not be an elite QB overall, but he balled harder in the playoffs than any QB has in recent memory with the exception of perhaps Kurt Warner in the year the Cardinals reached the Super Bowl.

 

It was not all or mostly luck as some are suggesting. Jesus Christ.

Edited February 7, 2013 by BwareDWare94

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

I don't see anyone saying that his playoff performance was all luck. Wherever you're getting that from, I'm not sure. The deep balls he kept throwing completely inflated his stats. So many plays in this post season you could go look at and say, "Damn! Flacco got lucky on that one!" Even that touchdown toss to Jacoby Jones in the Superbowl was one of those. I'm not sure what the defense was doing, no way should he have been that open.

 

If the Ravens lose to the Broncos, are we realistically having this discussion right now? Probably not. However, Joe Flacco heaved the ball into the air and somehow magically got a touchdown because the three defenders in the area were playing like clowns.

 

This isn't to say Joe Flacco didn't play great. He absolutely did. He made all the throws he needed to make and then some.

[oochymp 2,393]

Well, at least having Matt Ryan in the top 5 is.

 

1. Rodgers

2. Brady

3. Peyton

4. Brees

5. Ben

 

The definitive top 5. No other contenders.

definitive top 4 (though order could be debated, but that's for another thread) after those four there are at least four QBs I would entertain an argument for at #5 (Big Ben, Ryan, Eli, and Stafford for sure, and I'm sure there are others worth discussing) which is not to say that all four of those QBs (and the others I'm sure I'm forgetting) are that good, they're just that close

[Thanatos 2,847]

there are at least four QBs I would entertain an argument for at #5 (Big Ben, Ryan, Eli, and Stafford)

 

Stafford?

Edited February 7, 2013 by Thanatos19

[baltimoreravens 19]

definitive top 4 (though order could be debated, but that's for another thread) after those four there are at least four QBs I would entertain an argument for at #5 (Big Ben, Ryan, Eli, and Stafford for sure, and I'm sure there are others worth discussing) which is not to say that all four of those QBs (and the others I'm sure I'm forgetting) are that good, they're just that close

 

I agreed with you up to mentioning Stafford. Flacco is certainly above him. Hell, I'd probably even put Romo above him.

[oochymp 2,393]

I agreed with you up to mentioning Stafford. Flacco is certainly above him. Hell, I'd probably even put Romo above him.

let me clarify: I'd put Big Ben at fifth, but I'd be willing to listen to an argument for any of the other three, and really probably Flacco or Romo too, my main point was just that there's a huge logjam after the top 4 so I thought it was ridiculous to call anything a 'definitive' top five

 

as for Stafford, the main argument against him is that his numbers are inflated by Megatron, but that ignores the fact that he's got nobody else to throw to

Edited February 7, 2013 by oochymp

[AllYouNeedIsLovie 377]

I wouldn't consider Stafford in the top 10, forget top 5.

[oochymp 2,393]

I wouldn't consider Stafford in the top 10, forget top 5.

okay, it's becoming clear that nobody would be willing to make the argument for Stafford as #5, so I can forget having to entertain it, my broader point still stands

 

I knew I shouldn't have included Stafford

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I don't think it's fair to take Stafford off the list because he has Megatron. Jerry Rice had two of the greatest QBs of all time throwing to him as well as arguably the greatest coach of all time... That doesn't hurt him much, if at all, from what I have seen in discussions with folks here.

 

What does hurt him is that he just isn't very good. lol

 

He is like the NFC Joe Flacco. He makes a ton of boneheaded mistakes, makes some faulty reads, likes to throw up rainbow hail marys and pray that one of his guys comes down with it.

 

He's also been at the top of the league in attempts the last two years. He threw the ball 730 times this season. That is ungodly. 45 attempts per game, 730 over the course of a season... And he ends up with a completion % under 60. A YPA under 7. A TD:INT of a touch over 1. A QB rating of under 80. And we wonder why the Lions regressed this year. You can't throw the ball that much and put up numbers like that.

 

He did the same thing last year but was A LOT more efficient, and they made the playoffs.

 

People tend to overrated Stafford because he packs on yards like Kevin James packs on pounds.

[seanbrock 1,684]

I think this thread comes down to some of us just not wanting to give Joe Flacco any real credit. He had a big-time, ELITE postseason. He may not be an elite QB overall, but he balled harder in the playoffs than any QB has in recent memory with the exception of perhaps Kurt Warner in the year the Cardinals reached the Super Bowl.

 

It was not all or mostly luck as some are suggesting. Jesus Christ.

Actually I am giving him credit. Before his post season run I didn't have him in my top ten.

[baltimoreravens 19]

Regarding the whole Flacco vs. Big Ben thing: there's a distinction that needs to be made whether we're talking about what current NFL quarterbacks have accomplished in their careers or where they stack up right now going into the upcoming season. I wouldn't argue that Ben has accomplished more and if both of their careers ended today he'd be ranked higher. But given the current state of affairs I'd have Joe higher. Joe is *knock on wood* much more durable than Ben not having missed a game in his career whereas Big Ben is good for an injury a season. Also, I think where they are right now is something worth considering. While they are only about three years apart in age, I think Flacco is coming into his prime whereas Big Ben has reached his peak and won't ever play at that same level. Does this make my ranking less wrong according to others?

 

I don't think having Eli above Big Ben and Ryan is a stretch at all. I think most people would have him above them, Ryan for sure.

[baltimoreravens 19]

Oh, and I'm over the whole 'throwing up prayers' and how Joe got 'lucky' with some of his throws. The fact is our receiving corps has improved a lot too, not to take anything away from Joe, but our whole team really stepped up in the post-season and in the end all of this pointless debating means nothing... because we're Super Bowl champions and thirty one other teams aren't.

[seanbrock 1,684]

Big Ben played so much better than Flacco this year. Are you kidding me? Ben is injury prone because he's gotten his ass beat behind that line for like 3 or 4 seasons. Saying Flacco is better than Ben because he's not as durable as Flacco is a total cop out. I really don't see how you can say Ben is injury prone though tbh. No QB gets hit harder than Ben.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Big Ben played so much better than Flacco this year. Are you kidding me? Ben is injury prone because he's gotten his ass beat behind that line for like 3 or 4 seasons. Saying Flacco is better than Ben because he's not as durable as Flacco is a total cop out. I really don't see how you can say Ben is injury prone though tbh. No QB gets hit harder than Ben.

 

Ben's been sacked more times than any other QB since 2006. He's been sacked nearly 50 times in all seasons but a 12 game 2010 and 13 game 2012 where he was sacked 32 and 30 times respectively.

 

Ben's missed 11 games in 9 seasons due to injury, 4 of those coming in 2005 and 3 in 2011. He's also played with broken ribs in a Super Bowl (2008) and played through countless other injuries. If he had any semblance of an offensive line, which they may have here soon with all of the young blood they've added, he'd be looked at with much kinder eyes.

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

Stafford..... Sir throws a lot and prays someone catches it, is nowhere near Flacco's level.

 

Anyway. Flacco had a good postseason outing, but one postseason outing does not dramatically change his entire body of work. He's inconsistent, has been every year he's been in the league.

 

THIS is the first year where he took matters into his own hands without having significant relying on the defense to generate great field position. Teams wanted Flacco to make Flacco beat them during the entire playoffs for a reason. He rose to the challenge.

 

Still not a top 5 QB, let alone a QB that should be demanding a 20 mil$ contract when his regular season body of work is average at best.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Stafford had a year in 2011 that Flacco will probably never see. Now, as I said earlier, a lot of that has to do with his sheer number of attempts. So that must be factored in.

 

With that said, I still view them as very similar style QBs. They are, as far as talent goes, on the same level.. And I would grade them out both as being above average.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Holy shitballs this thread exploded.

 

As to Ben being over Flacco, wont deny it. I have always said Ben was elite and stand by it. That said Eli over Flacco is shall we say highly debatable. They are both in the conversation for the same thing. Epic playoff runs, although Flacco's was far more impressive. Not to mention defenses who were staunch at one point and time and are now fading quickly.

 

The is Flacco as durable as Ben. I have to say yes. Flacco has been sacked 174 times since 2008 (his rookie year). Ben has been sacked 194. Doing the math that is less than .25 sacks a game. So they both have been hit about the same and neither have been hit by creampuffs, Suggs on side, Harrison on the other.

 

Is Joe Flacco elite. No. Has he been inconsistent....yup. However I said it for a long time as many others, Cam Cameron is by far the worst OC in the league and probably in college in high school as well. I understand that Arians also has some people who think he is terrible too. Admittedly he has gotten Ben hit...a lot. That said he is nowhere near the level of dog shit that was Cam Cameron. That is like comparing the sniffles to Aids...not even close. I find it no coincidence at all that other than the Denver debacle that the instant we got a new OC Flacco caught on. That Denver game was the first game Jim Caldwell called as OC using Cam's playbook. Cam NEVER used 3 WR and 4 WR sets putting Boldin in the slot and then as soon as that happens Boldin starts going off. Huge fuckin shocker I know.

 

This whole deep ball shit being prayers is retarded. Flacco hits Jacoby Jones in the chest with a HUGE throw and because Rahim Moore fucked up somehow negates a good throw. What about when he hit Torrey putting it right on the money ? Oh well that is because of Champ. Well Chris Culliver played like shit of he never hits Jacoby Jones. Insert any Colts corner, well if he had not played bad Flacco would not have hit him.... I could have swore that Football was about matchups. I guess having a fast guy blow the top off of a cover 2 defense is not really a matchup expolited by the offense but that guy fucked up. Not sure there are many safeties who can run with Jacoby, of course he threw it to him that was a mismatch, I would expect a good QB to exploit that. And seriously Sean ? Any QB with Comparable arm strength makes that throw. No shit. That is a strength of Flacco's, not many QB's have his arm strength if any. Any QB with A-rods accuracy could make the throws he does lol...no shit that is what makes A-rod great lol.

 

And Our offense is what we call a play action offense. I should not have to break it down, but brief synopsis. What happens is we run the ball to bring the safeties in the box...when that happens Flacco turns around and fakes the ball to a RB. This in turn causes safeties to bite. Then we have these fast guys that run really fast down the sideline. Once that happens Flacco uses his ELITE arm strength and throws it really far to those guys. That is in effect our offense. Bitch about his completion percentage if you want but when you have a QB who throws deep a lot that tends to happen. I do not however see anyone who brings up that Flacco has one of the most accurate deep balls in the NFL.

 

Is he top 10 yeah he is. Is he top 5, no he is not. A-rod is number one, no contest. Then after that put in Brees, Brady or Manning. Then Ben. After that though debate your ass off. Flacco is 6-10 or somewhere in there. Although I will say this is kind of funny considering when this thread was created people were saying he was not in the top half....pretty big jump for a guy who was never gonna be more than average.