oochymp 2,393 Posted December 30, 2015 One of the issues I have with that is that it kind of makes Finn totally irrelevant. Also, why would he offer to teach Rey the darkside, or torture and/or kill tons of people trying to find Luke if he already knows where he is? A Jedi can't do that, even if it's part of a grander scheme to defeat the Sith. At least I would think so anyway. I think it makes more sense in the obvious way that he had to kill Han to completely fall to the darkside. Though I think Ren will follow the path of Vader and eventually turn back to the light (whether it's too late or not by then), I don't think it's in the works already. I didn't say I particularly liked it, just that it was interesting. The "bad guy was a good guy all along" twist usually just ends up being obnoxious, but I think they could make it work. As for offering to teach Rey, did he explicitly say teach her the dark side or was it just teach her how to use the force? Whatever the case on that, you're right, there's a bit too much to just wash over with "the ends justify the means." I do think they could make it work and I do think they could carve out a role for Finn, but there are definitely better directions they could go. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Favre4Ever+ 4,476 Posted December 30, 2015 Speaking of which, and I can't remember if we have discussed this that deeply yet. But this movie had a ton of great lighter moments. They were able to balance that really well imo and get some great laughs at the same time. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BJORN 679 Posted December 30, 2015 There's no going back for Ren at this point. Would be incredibly stupid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cherry 1,302 Posted December 30, 2015 I don't think we'll see another vader-esque turn for Kylo. It just doesn't make sense to follow the OT like that. Personally I like the idea that Rey is Han's daughter due to how similar they were shown to be. It also follows the EU model where Jacen (the OG Kylo) dueled his sister. The EU already hit with the whole "Han's evil son" thing. However, there is also a lot of evidence pointing to her being Luke's child. Personally I don't like the idea because Jedi are not supposed to have children or families. That said I wouldn't be shocked if that ideology were discarded for the sake of a good story. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos 2,847 Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) I don't think we'll see another vader-esque turn for Kylo. It just doesn't make sense to follow the OT like that. Personally I like the idea that Rey is Han's daughter due to how similar they were shown to be. It also follows the EU model where Jacen (the OG Kylo) dueled his sister. The EU already hit with the whole "Han's evil son" thing. However, there is also a lot of evidence pointing to her being Luke's child. Personally I don't like the idea because Jedi are not supposed to have children or families. That said I wouldn't be shocked if that ideology were discarded for the sake of a good story. Jacen, at the very end, kinda turned back, albeit for a brief instant. He sacrificed himself, knowing he wouldn't be able to block Jaina's saber, to warn his partner about the imminent attack on their daughter and saved her life by so doing. While he didn't redeem himself by any means, and is clearly still a Sith, (Luke talks to him after his death), he is the *only* dark side force user to have an individual presence in the afterlife that wasn't redeemed. The theory being that because of his sacrifice, he was granted this ability. They could do something similar with Ren, where he doesn't actually turn back to the lightside, but he does do something of the same sort. Also if we're talking about the EU, they already discarded the "Jedi must not form attachments or have children" shtick, as Luke has a son of his own and a wife, Mara Jade, who I dearly hope they keep around as she was easily my favorite character from the EU. Edited December 30, 2015 by Thanatos19 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014 Posted December 31, 2015 Amazing concept art gallery from 4-6 http://imgur.com/gallery/xN3s0 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025 Posted December 31, 2015 Amazing concept art gallery from 4-6 http://imgur.com/gallery/xN3s0 This is so so fucking dope. Thank you. You have no idea how much I love shit like this. This reminds me of a great documentary: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1935156/ Actually I think it even says in that doc that Lucas and Star Wars even were influenced by their vision. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cherry 1,302 Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) Jacen, at the very end, kinda turned back, albeit for a brief instant. He sacrificed himself, knowing he wouldn't be able to block Jaina's saber, to warn his partner about the imminent attack on their daughter and saved her life by so doing. While he didn't redeem himself by any means, and is clearly still a Sith, (Luke talks to him after his death), he is the *only* dark side force user to have an individual presence in the afterlife that wasn't redeemed. The theory being that because of his sacrifice, he was granted this ability. They could do something similar with Ren, where he doesn't actually turn back to the lightside, but he does do something of the same sort. Also if we're talking about the EU, they already discarded the "Jedi must not form attachments or have children" shtick, as Luke has a son of his own and a wife, Mara Jade, who I dearly hope they keep around as she was easily my favorite character from the EU. Ah my memory on the EU was a little rusty. It must've been altered after the fall of the empire and the whole concept of the Jedi order must've changed. I see you Than Edited December 31, 2015 by Chernobyl426 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014 Posted December 31, 2015 What if Kylo Ren has to fight Luke for some reason and then goes, "I killed my father", to which Luke replies that he is Ren's father? TFA already mirrors ANH in quite a few ways, so they could just recycle that twist, have it come around full circle to where Ren kills Snoke like Vader did Palpatine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vin+ 3,121 Posted December 31, 2015 What if Kylo Ren has to fight Luke for some reason and then goes, "I killed my father", to which Luke replies that he is Ren's father? TFA already mirrors ANH in quite a few ways, so they could just recycle that twist, have it come around full circle to where Ren kills Snoke like Vader did Palpatine. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted December 31, 2015 That wouldn't really make sense. Either Han and Leia adopted him, which...why? Or Leia was cheating on Han with Luke in which case, ew. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014 Posted December 31, 2015 That wouldn't really make sense. Either Han and Leia adopted him, which...why? Or Leia was cheating on Han with Luke in which case, ew. I never said it had to make sense. It's Star Wars. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
butta54 371 Posted January 1, 2016 Kylo knows Rey. Clearly shown by his reaction about the to "a girl from Jakku" being part of the escape. Han also knows Rey. The scene where they arrive to the planet to see Maz Kanata and Rey says I didn't know there was so much green in the galaxy or whatever...the face Han makes is a look of pure guilt. The first time I saw it I thought he just felt pity, but the second time it looks like guilt, like he was a part of putting her ton Jakku and feeling bad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sparty 110 Posted January 1, 2016 RIP Boba http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Jason-Wingreen-Voice-Boba-Fett-Dies-95-103487.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SteVo+ 3,702 Posted January 3, 2016 Watched it for a second time last night, and it was just as good the second time around, but now I'm 100% convinced Rey is, if not Luke's daughter, somebody special. There's just too much evidence. When Ren hears the Skywalker map is indirectly in the hands of "a girl on Jakku," he angrily chokes the First Order guy and says, "What girl?" When Maz is talking to Han, Finn, and Rey, Finn walks away and Rey goes after him, leaving Maz and Han alone. Maz speculatively asks, "Who's the girl?" Luke's/Anakin's lightsaber calling to Rey both at Maz's place and during the saber battle in the snow when Ren is trying to get it. When Ren first gets his hands on Rey, he calls her "the girl I've heard so much about." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
butta54 371 Posted January 5, 2016 http://screenrant.com/star-wars-who-is-snoke/ Amazing read 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Favre4Ever+ 4,476 Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) Watched it for a second time last night, and it was just as good the second time around, but now I'm 100% convinced Rey is, if not Luke's daughter, somebody special. There's just too much evidence. When Ren hears the Skywalker map is indirectly in the hands of "a girl on Jakku," he angrily chokes the First Order guy and says, "What girl?" When Maz is talking to Han, Finn, and Rey, Finn walks away and Rey goes after him, leaving Maz and Han alone. Maz speculatively asks, "Who's the girl?" Luke's/Anakin's lightsaber calling to Rey both at Maz's place and during the saber battle in the snow when Ren is trying to get it. When Ren first gets his hands on Rey, he calls her "the girl I've heard so much about." Han also talks to Leia about Rey behind the scenes. Finn reunites with Po and tells him he needs his help. Po takes Finn to Leia and Finn pleads to her to help rescue his friend.. Leia replies that Han told her all about Rey. I also got the chance to see it a second time and one scene that I saw in a different light was the meeting between Kylo Ren and Han Solo. First time through I hated the scene in parts, because they killed off one of my heroes.. In what I thought at the time, was a really terrible way. Thought the scene lacked emotion and that it was a real low point of the movie as far as quality goes. And previously I really thought with Ren's talks with Snoke that he was intent on killing Han from the beginning... that some of the conflict we see in the character throughout the movie was kind of bypassed in this intense yearning or need to kill his father. I thought the things Ren said to Han were said just to deceive him and make his death more painful.... Now? I gained a much larger appreciation for the scene. I picked up on little nuances in both of their faces and the inflection in their tones that I didn't before, which made it more impactful. Now I see the mood quickly change in the scene. As if Ren really is struggling with the light even as he faces his father.. the doubts that Snoke has, the doubts he has about himself.. All true. When the two come face to face, it starts with the sun in the sky, illuminating the walkway. Ren begins his speech, talking about being ripped apart ... that he wants to be free of the pain. He then tells Han that he doesn't know if he has the strength to do what he feels he must.. And this is where the scene really changed for me. Again, previously when this line came out all I was thinking about was Ren wanting to kill his father. But after rewatching.. I see the real struggle there. Doing what he must do can be seen from both sides of the force. Obviously killing his father to please Snoke.. But also he could have made the difficult choice to face his mistakes and commit back to the light. Ren extends his crude saber towards Han and Han puts his hand on it as well as if to take it from him. Suddenly, the camera shifts to the open panel in the roof.. Clouds quickly begin to converge on the sun, and darkness engulfs everything.. Including Ren as he doesn't turn over the saber but tightens his grasp and makes his decision. Like I said.. I am not saying the scene was actually different the second time. It was just a lot more powerful, for me, as I saw things I previously didn't want to accept or fully understand. I still don't like Han dying, but the scene is a lot more powerful than I originally gave it credit for. Edited January 5, 2016 by Favre4Ever 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
butta54 371 Posted January 6, 2016 Han also talks to Leia about Rey behind the scenes. Finn reunites with Po and tells him he needs his help. Po takes Finn to Leia and Finn pleads to her to help rescue his friend.. Leia replies that Han told her all about Rey. I also got the chance to see it a second time and one scene that I saw in a different light was the meeting between Kylo Ren and Han Solo. First time through I hated the scene in parts, because they killed off one of my heroes.. In what I thought at the time, was a really terrible way. Thought the scene lacked emotion and that it was a real low point of the movie as far as quality goes. And previously I really thought with Ren's talks with Snoke that he was intent on killing Han from the beginning... that some of the conflict we see in the character throughout the movie was kind of bypassed in this intense yearning or need to kill his father. I thought the things Ren said to Han were said just to deceive him and make his death more painful.... Now? I gained a much larger appreciation for the scene. I picked up on little nuances in both of their faces and the inflection in their tones that I didn't before, which made it more impactful. Now I see the mood quickly change in the scene. As if Ren really is struggling with the light even as he faces his father.. the doubts that Snoke has, the doubts he has about himself.. All true. When the two come face to face, it starts with the sun in the sky, illuminating the walkway. Ren begins his speech, talking about being ripped apart ... that he wants to be free of the pain. He then tells Han that he doesn't know if he has the strength to do what he feels he must.. And this is where the scene really changed for me. Again, previously when this line came out all I was thinking about was Ren wanting to kill his father. But after rewatching.. I see the real struggle there. Doing what he must do can be seen from both sides of the force. Obviously killing his father to please Snoke.. But also he could have made the difficult choice to face his mistakes and commit back to the light. Ren extends his crude saber towards Han and Han puts his hand on it as well as if to take it from him. Suddenly, the camera shifts to the open panel in the roof.. Clouds quickly begin to converge on the sun, and darkness engulfs everything.. Including Ren as he doesn't turn over the saber but tightens his grasp and makes his decision. Like I said.. I am not saying the scene was actually different the second time. It was just a lot more powerful, for me, as I saw things I previously didn't want to accept or fully understand. I still don't like Han dying, but the scene is a lot more powerful than I originally gave it credit for. Completely embodies the beauty of film as an art form. Completely subjective in all ways. Captures the spirit of what is going on with Star Wars conversations. We all saw the same movie, but we didn't all see the same film. I hear debates on the exact same scene with opposite view points....everything in your life and background shapes your reactions and multiple viewings can adjust your reception based off things you read or was pointed out or what you decide to look for. Great reminder of how movies can be completely different things to different people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SteVo+ 3,702 Posted January 6, 2016 Completely embodies the beauty of film as an art form. Completely subjective in all ways. Captures the spirit of what is going on with Star Wars conversations. We all saw the same movie, but we didn't all see the same film. I hear debates on the exact same scene with opposite view points....everything in your life and background shapes your reactions and multiple viewings can adjust your reception based off things you read or was pointed out or what you decide to look for. Great reminder of how movies can be completely different things to different people. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vin+ 3,121 Posted January 13, 2016 Darth Maul screwing around. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
