Black former NFL coaches say Rooney rule is broken

[Thanatos 2,847]

Source

 

NEW ORLEANS -- Three black former NFL coaches say the league needs to rethink its Rooney Rule for promoting minority hiring after 15 top vacancies -- eight head coaching jobs and seven general manager positions -- were all filled by white candidates since the regular season ended a month ago.

 

"I know the concept is good and something we need to do," said Tony Dungy, who was with the Indianapolis Colts during the 2006 season when he became the first black coach to win a Super Bowl. "Obviously, it's not working the way it should."

 

The Rooney Rule, implemented in 2003, was named for Pittsburgh Steelers chairman Dan Rooney, who steadfastly pushed the league to require every team to interview at least one minority candidate every time there is a coaching or general manager opening.

 

Before the rule went into effect, the NFL had only six minority coaches in more than 80 years. Since it has been in place, 12 have been hired.

 

But none were hired this year to replace the two black coaches who were fired -- Romeo Crennel in Kansas City and Lovie Smith in Chicago -- and the one fired black GM, Rod Graves in Arizona.

 

Herm Edwards, former coach of the New York Jets and Kansas City Chiefs and now an ESPN analyst, has called for not only revising the rule but perhaps even changing its name.

 

"When you use the Rooney Rule and not correctly, you put a little bit of a bad mark on Mr. Rooney's name, and that is not good," Edwards said Wednesday. "If it keeps going this way, we might need to take his name off the rule. It is not being used in the right manner that Mr. Rooney meant it to be."

 

Robert Gulliver, the NFL's executive vice president of human resources, said that the hiring results were "disappointing" and that he expects to make revisions in the rule.

 

The Fritz Pollard Alliance, a group of minority coaches and front-office, scouting and game-day NFL officials, wants the Rooney Rule expanded to apply to coordinators, assistant head coaches and club president positions.

 

Unlike Dungy and Edwards, Jim Caldwell is still coaching, albeit as an assistant. Not only that, his team, the Baltimore Ravens, will play the San Francisco 49ers in Sunday's Super Bowl. But he wasn't even invited to interview for one of the eight vacant coaching jobs, though having a team in the playoffs can be a hindrance to such opportunities.

 

Fired as the Colts' coach after the 2011 season, Caldwell joined the Ravens as quarterbacks coach. When coach John Harbaugh fired offensive coordinator Cam Cameron in December, Caldwell was promoted. With his guidance, Baltimore's offense responded.

 

Caldwell is no stranger to the Super Bowl, having led the Colts there three years ago after replacing the retired Dungy. It was only after Peyton Manning was sidelined for the 2011 season that Caldwell was fired.

 

"It has been a great rule and it has worked in the past," he said. "Just like anything else, you have to, after a certain period of time, revisit it and take a look and see if it needs a little tweaking. I think it does in this particular case."

 

Caldwell added: "That's one of the reasons that the Rooney Rule was put in place, because you're trying to avoid those situations, if possible. We're at that stage where guys like Lovie Smith, who didn't get an opportunity, who had won and been very successful previously ... obviously, there's some concern there, and that's why I think the rule is going to be revisited."

 

Dungy said he believes the entire system is broken. He cited 21 coaching jobs changing in a three-year span, which he said indicates owners are making the wrong hires regardless of race.

 

Edwards said he wonders whether minority candidates get interviewed only to satisfy the rule, even though they have no chance of getting the job. He and Dungy noted that the last black head coach hiring -- other than coaches promoted from within, such as Leslie Frazier, Raheem Morris, Mike Singletary, Hue Jackson and Crennel -- was Mike Tomlin by Pittsburgh in 2007.

 

There are four minority coaches: Tomlin, Frazier in Minnesota, Marvin Lewis in Cincinnati and Ron Rivera in Carolina. Minority general managers include Baltimore's Ozzie Newsome, Detroit's Martin Mayhew, Houston's Rick Smith, the New York Giants' Jerry Reese and Oakland's Reggie McKenzie.

 

"I am not saying you have to hire a minority candidate. No one is saying that," Edwards said. "I am saying you can't be blinded. It can't be, 'Who is the guy to interview to get this out of the way?' "

 

"The problem I have is you don't really abide by the Rooney Rule the correct way," he said.

 

The NFL was harping on this earlier, and I have just about had it with the staggering amount of stupidity that is being displayed. The NFL is comprised mainly of black players. They hire the best person for the job. We are past skin color being a factor in job hiring, at least in the NFL.

 

There is not one single Asian coach. Should we make it so that they have to hire Asian coaches too? The Bears just hired the first head coach in the history of the NFL that was Jewish. Not one word on NFL.com about that. Bet you didn't even know it. The idea that a sport that prides itself on picking the best players for the job should have to compromise on the most skilled individuals because of political correctness is infuriating.

 

The comments on the article, however, are hilarious.

 

"We need a Gandalf rule. Def not enough wizards coaching! They don't have much of a run defense but you shall not PASS!!"

 

"Not one Asian coach and they don't complain. They just go to Ivy League schools."

 

"Riddle me this Tony? There are five black GM's currently in the NFL. They have collectivley hired ZERO Black head coaches.......maybe it isn't the Rooney rule that needs to be fixed. Hire who is best for the job...."

 

"There arent enough white RBs in the NFL. They should institute the Peyton Hillis Rule."

 

"I am not a racist but sometimes my keyboard is."

 

"WHERE ARE ALL MY MEXICAN BROTHERS??

WE NEED MORE MEXICANS COACHING IN THE NFL!!"

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Actually.. it would be hard to take Trestman for anything but Jewish. haha. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

 

And I completely agree with you. I want Tony Dungy to get on his soapbox and start talking about how there aren't any Asian or we've only had like... 2 or 3 Hispanic head coaches, IIRC. Including most recently Ron Rivera, of course.

 

It's dumb, petty, and yes.... Racist.

 

I am ALL for equality amongst ALL races. But what else can the NFL do except for force an NFL team to hire non-white coaches? Not really anything.

 

I firmly believe no owner or GM in this league picks their coach because of the color of their skin. They pick who they believe to be the best candidate for the job, and you can't make them choose based on anything else.

 

The examples used to support this stupid argument is the fact that Jim Caldwell, Winston Moss, and Ray Horton didn't get head coaching jobs.

 

1. Ray Horton might have a slight argument, but again.. I don't think anyone passed on him because he was black. He will get his shot in the next year or two, I feel.

 

2. Winston Moss has interviewed for coaching spots before and has interviewed VERY VERY poorly. Why would that change now?

 

3. Jim Caldwell is beyond awful. Period.

[Maverick 791]

Agreed.

 

I actually think the Rooney Rule is more racist and degrading to African Americans than there would be without such a "rule".

[SteelersNation36 128]

Agreed.

 

I actually think the Rooney Rule is more racist and degrading to African Americans than there would be without such a "rule".

 

"Hey just giving you this 20 minute interview, we dont really plan on hiring you but we have to intewview a minority" You mean in this way?

[Thanatos 2,847]

Also in the subtle implication it may give. I realize this is not its intent, but it seems to say that a black guy can't get a coaching job unless we give him a bit of help.

[blotsfan 2,112]

he Bears just hired the first head coach in the history of the NFL that was Jewish. Not one word on NFL.com about that. Bet you didn't even know it.

Ahem

 

 

 

Other than that, spot on.

[SteVo+ 3,702]

I've commented on the condescension of the Rooney Rule towards blacks before, so I'll take a new angle this time. There is a universal fact, and in some ways a grave ultimatum, that a lot of people in this world seem to have trouble accepting.

 

All races are not equal.

 

Some races are smarter than others, some are faster than others, etc. Deal with it. Those of you who know me know I'm very much for racial equality, and that goes for the NFL too, but racial equality does not mean every race should be equally represented in head coaching and general manager positions. Any attempt to counter that fact is certain to fall back on itself, just as the Rooney Rule has.

Edited February 1, 2013 by SteVo

[Thanatos 2,847]

Ahem

 

 

 

Other than that, spot on.

\

 

Didn't even know that Marv was Jewish, lol.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

[Bay 2,003]

Allie Sherman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_American_sportspeople#Coaches

Edited February 1, 2013 by Bay

[RANGA+ 1,210]

I've commented on the condescension of the Rooney Rule towards blacks before, so I'll take a new angle this time. There is a universal fact, and in some ways a grave ultimatum, that a lot of people in this world seem to have trouble accepting.

 

All races are not equal.

 

Some races are smarter than others, some are faster than others, etc. Deal with it. Those of you who know me know I'm very much for racial equality, and that goes for the NFL too, but racial equality does not mean every race should be equally represented in head coaching and general manager positions. Any attempt to counter that fact is certain to fall back on itself, just as the Rooney Rule has.

 

[Duck Fallas 209]

I thought the rule was broken the second in was implemented.

 

This comment on the article:

 

We need a Gandalf rule. Def not enough wizards coaching! They don't have much of a run defense but you shall not PASS!!"

 

Pure. Fucking. Win.

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

Is it really that hard to believe that there were no good minority candidates? This is just dumb. I get the Rooney rule and think it's great. However, to think that there needs to be a minority hired for a coaching job in the NFL at least 1 out of 7 head coaching jobs? That's dumb. I don't agree with that. You hire the best man. If they bring the best tools to the interview, they'll be hired.

[Dutch 874]

When a team finds a black coach candidate that suits the requirements of their team and believe will win a lot of ball games for their club, they will get hired.

[Dutch 874]

I've commented on the condescension of the Rooney Rule towards blacks before, so I'll take a new angle this time. There is a universal fact, and in some ways a grave ultimatum, that a lot of people in this world seem to have trouble accepting.

 

All races are not equal.

 

Some races are smarter than others, some are faster than others, etc. Deal with it. Those of you who know me know I'm very much for racial equality, and that goes for the NFL too, but racial equality does not mean every race should be equally represented in head coaching and general manager positions. Any attempt to counter that fact is certain to fall back on itself, just as the Rooney Rule has.

 

I agree that the Rooney Rule is dumb too but to say all races are not equal in is pretty irrelevant. In a general / broad sense as a whole (population), you may have some races that may come out on top in certain aspects, but the same can be said about any "person". You can easily find a guy of any race capable of filling in that role as well as the next guy. You can find a person of each race capable of doing anything as well or better than another race. Unless you have "entire" races square off against another race, THEN you can say races aren't equal. If not, it just comes down to finding the right person/people. Race is not a factor.

Edited February 2, 2013 by dutchff7

[oochymp 2,393]

The examples used to support this stupid argument is the fact that Jim Caldwell, Winston Moss, and Ray Horton didn't get head coaching jobs.

 

1. Ray Horton might have a slight argument, but again.. I don't think anyone passed on him because he was black. He will get his shot in the next year or two, I feel.

 

2. Winston Moss has interviewed for coaching spots before and has interviewed VERY VERY poorly. Why would that change now?

 

3. Jim Caldwell is beyond awful. Period.

to me, this is the problem, there isn't much of a pipeline for black coaches, when there are only there black people thrown out as possible coaches (though to be fair Lovie Smith should be on that list, he was at least as deserving as Andy Reid to get another job quickly) with 8 coaching vacancies then I don't think you can really expect to get a good representation, I do find it odd tho that so many people on here are willing to dismiss the argument that there should be more black head coaches when such a huge portion of the players are black, which also makes the arguments for Asian or Mexican head coaches a little absurd IMO, how many Asians are currently playing in the NFL? I've never looked it up (not even sure there's a place to look it up) but I would venture a guess it's in the single digits if it's not zero, and while the number of Mexicans is higher, it's also not very high, but again, the issue really is the lack of a pipeline, I found an article from last year that said only 199 out of 610 coaches in the NFL are black, given the proportion of players, that number should definitely be higher, and in terms of coordinators (typical candidates for head coaching positions) the same article pointed out that only one offensive coordinator at that point (last January) was black (now it's two: Jim Caldwell and the Bills' Curtis Modkins) I couldn't find numbers on DCs, but the trend right now is definitely to hire offensive coaches

 

I definitely agree with the idea that every team will hire the most qualified person, the guy they think will do the best with their team, but that argument collapses when you look at the pipelines and realize that the system in place doesn't make it easy for a black coach to ascend the ranks

 

All that said, you can't tell teams who to hire, what you really need is a culture change, and it starts with hiring more black coordinators so they actually have a resume that's worth showing when they're brought in for a head coaching interview

Edited February 1, 2013 by oochymp

[Thanatos 2,847]

There are five black GMs in the NFL. Over the course of their tenures, they have collectively hired *zero* black coaches.

 

The problem is not racism.

[RazorStar 4,025]

About 1/8th of the people in America are black. Considering that, the number of black head coaches in the league should be around 4 at any given time if all things are equal.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

You guys are all thinking wrong. The NFL desperately needs racial equality. There should be more black coaches than white coaches.

 

I also propose the Riggins Rule, making it a requirement for every NFL team to bring in and try out at least 1 white RB every off season.

[Thanatos 2,847]

Unfortunately, Favre, you are too late to the party. That rule is called the Peyton Hillis rule.

 

I don't understand why the NFL is suddenly in a hubbub over this. We have 5 out of 32 black GMs, and 3 out of 32 black head coaches, so we have 8 out of 64 black people in those two positions. As Razor pointed out, approximately 1 in 8 people in America are black, thus we have the exact ratio of blacks to other races operating in those two positions. Why does everyone say the Rooney Rule is broken? Are we saying it isn't fair until (one of) the minorities becomes over-represented?

Edited February 1, 2013 by Thanatos19

[oochymp 2,393]

About 1/8th of the people in America are black. Considering that, the number of black head coaches in the league should be around 4 at any given time if all things are equal.

but look at the league rather than the general population, after a little research it looks like 67% of NFL players are black, if that proportion is carried into the rest of the league then we should have about 21 black head coaches

 

again, I'm not saying the league should tell teams who they have to hire, but to act like there's no problem seems a bit off to me

Edited February 1, 2013 by oochymp

[RazorStar 4,025]

Well, if you consider that, then where are the black people in any business structure? Lawyers, Corporations, Doctors and Scientists, all of these fields have a surprising dearth of black people. The reasons for that are sociological, not race related. Well not entirely anyway.

[seanbrock 1,684]

I've commented on the condescension of the Rooney Rule towards blacks before, so I'll take a new angle this time. There is a universal fact, and in some ways a grave ultimatum, that a lot of people in this world seem to have trouble accepting.

 

All races are not equal.

 

Some races are smarter than others, some are faster than others, etc. Deal with it. Those of you who know me know I'm very much for racial equality, and that goes for the NFL too, but racial equality does not mean every race should be equally represented in head coaching and general manager positions. Any attempt to counter that fact is certain to fall back on itself, just as the Rooney Rule has.

I'm no expert in genetics but I don't have to be to see the absurdity of this post.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Of course it is broke, it was completely retarded to start with.

[Thanatos 2,847]

but look at the league rather than the general population, after a little research it looks like 67% of NFL players are black, if that proportion is carried into the rest of the league then we should have about 21 black head coaches

 

again, I'm not saying the league should tell teams who they have to hire, but to act like there's no problem seems a bit off to me

 

There is no problem.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that a multi-billion dollar business doesn't hire someone they think is better than a white guy because of the color of his skin?

 

Why don't we make teams look at a white QB before they look at a black QB? Or a white RB before a black RB? 67% of people in the NFL are black, if your stat is correct, clearly there must be a problem going on, since only 1/8 of the people in America are black. Obviously, the white population is under-represented and we need to put forward incentives to make sure certain teams don't refuse to consider a guy because he's white.

 

Come on, man. We're never going to get past the racial divide if we keep making incentives for people based on the color of their skin.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Thanatos19