Are 11-6 Chiefs for real?

[AL_Royalty 489]

There were far too many posts to respond to, so I'm just going to throw a few things out there to all-encompass, so to speak. First off, the thread is entitled "Are the ______ CHIEFS for real," and not "Is Alex Smith elite." One thing doesn't equal the other. A lot of posters are talking about how great the team is playing, but they don't give that same team credit because Alex Smith hasn't put them on his back. That's a problem that I'm glad this team has.

 

On top of that, if this team isn't a top 5 team right now, I'd like to know who these five teams are. Who is so dominant that this team couldn't possibly beat them? I heard it said that they COULD go one and done, but is there really a team this season that couldn't? Is there a team in the AFC that is so tested, so proven, that they can be considered the end all be all in said conference? If so, who is it and why? You have the Chiefs-offensively challenged-, the Pats-just lost to the Jets-, the Colts-lost to the third place Chargers-, and the Bengals-even MORE offensively challenged than the Chiefs.

 

After that, you have the Broncos, Chargers, Dolphins, Jets, Titans, and whoever else. Are any of you really going to tell me that there's someone in the AFC who is head and shoulders better/more proven THIS SEASON than the Kansas City Chiefs? I keep reading that they just aren't Super Bowl contenders (when this thread was started, for real would have probably been playoff contender quality), but if they aren't then who is? No one is really making a case for who's so good that it makes the Chiefs look so bad. Just saying.

[KempBolt 498]

It's not that KC doesn't get credit because they're not QB driven, just that one has to question how far a team can go with sub-par QB play. So it's not to discount what has happened. More to consider as a factor to consider as we wonder what will happen. Because what will happen is going to determine whether or not this team is "for real" (whatever anyone means by that).

[BwareDWare94 723]

There were far too many posts to respond to, so I'm just going to throw a few things out there to all-encompass, so to speak. First off, the thread is entitled "Are the ______ CHIEFS for real," and not "Is Alex Smith elite." One thing doesn't equal the other. A lot of posters are talking about how great the team is playing, but they don't give that same team credit because Alex Smith hasn't put them on his back. That's a problem that I'm glad this team has.

 

On top of that, if this team isn't a top 5 team right now, I'd like to know who these five teams are. Who is so dominant that this team couldn't possibly beat them? I heard it said that they COULD go one and done, but is there really a team this season that couldn't? Is there a team in the AFC that is so tested, so proven, that they can be considered the end all be all in said conference? If so, who is it and why? You have the Chiefs-offensively challenged-, the Pats-just lost to the Jets-, the Colts-lost to the third place Chargers-, and the Bengals-even MORE offensively challenged than the Chiefs.

 

After that, you have the Broncos, Chargers, Dolphins, Jets, Titans, and whoever else. Are any of you really going to tell me that there's someone in the AFC who is head and shoulders better/more proven THIS SEASON than the Kansas City Chiefs? I keep reading that they just aren't Super Bowl contenders (when this thread was started, for real would have probably been playoff contender quality), but if they aren't then who is? No one is really making a case for who's so good that it makes the Chiefs look so bad. Just saying.

 

Well, no. Not quite. The Bengals have a top 2 WR, other good aerial weapons, and a nice two back system. At least Andy Dalton might throw 2-3 TDs each Sunday.

 

I do agree with you, however. Everybody in each conference could be one and done. That's the beauty of football.

 

IMO, the AFC playoff teams are:

 

1. Patriots

2. Broncos

3. Bengals

4. Colts

5. Chiefs

6. Ravens

 

There isn't a team on this list who can't beat the other 5 teams. And there are other options that might sneak into the playoffs, as well. You have to consider the Chargers. You have to consider the Jets with their defense. You have to consider the Steelers because they're likely to be 4-4 in two weeks, and right back in the mix. You might even have to consider the Titans, especially if having Locker back can get them back in gear.

 

That's 10 potential playoff teams in the AFC, all of which could knock the other 9 teams off. This is the beauty of football. It's the same scenario in the NFC.

 

We can hate on the Chiefs, but what's best for Kansas City is, come playoff time, it's one game. 60 minutes. Not a series. I think they can beat anybody in 60 minutes.

[Thanatos 2,847]

What it comes down to is how you decide whether or not a player is "good." A good team can win with Smith at QB, but I don't believe the 49ers or Chiefs won because of him. More that they just didn't lose because of him. And I generally don't consider a player better than 'average' if he's at about replacement level (i.e., you could replace him with another middle of the road talent and the team's fortunes would not change). I mean, you put Mike Glennon on the Chiefs and what do you have? Probably a 7-0 team. 6-1 at worst. However, you put Alex Smith on the Chargers or Packers and you probably have 1 or 2 win teams because those teams' success are driven by their excellent QB play. And their QB's look good because they are asked to put the team on their backs and they play well. As opposed to being asked just not to screw it up.

I disagree. Glennon on the Chiefs could easily be 4-4. IMO, he is not good at all, not even average, atm.

 

Alex Smith torched the Saints in the playoffs two years back. He is capable of doing some surprising things. And all the Chiefs need him to do to have a chance at winning ballgames is not turning the ball over.

 

He is not "turnover prone" for the past three years, not really sure what going back further than that is meant to say. He's not the same guy as the 2009-era Alex Smith.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Thanatos19

[Maverick 791]

lol that edit.

[AL_Royalty 489]

Tony Kornheiser hipped me to this little gem of a stat: 17 times this season one of the Chiefs opponents have had a 4th quarter drive with a chance of a tying or go ahead score. Total points given up on said 17 drives: 3. Take that however you want, but I thought it pretty relevant.

[Tridentdawgpound 1,043]

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

I don't really have anymore to fuel the Alex Smith debate, however I do have a couple things on my mind about the Chiefs.

 

Dwayne Bowe is really grinding my gears right now. Or should I say Andy Reid? Or should I say Alex Smith? Who knows! Bowe is a top receiver in the league, and they can't even get him the football. He's shown with lousy quarterbacks, usually 2 or 3 in one season, that he can produce huge numbers. Yet, they can't get him the football? Do you know how frustrating this is as a person who drafted Dwayne Bowe in the 5th round? I mean, damn!

 

 

Dontari Poe is a stud. I thought for sure this kid would bust out, he showed up this year with some serious motivation. The Chiefs defense was great last year, but Poe generating pressure in the pass game and clogging the lanes in the running game has greatly elevated this defense. He opens up so much for Justin Houston and Tamba Hali, they can drop those guys into coverage when they need to or they can rush them. It's actually pretty amazing to watch what they can do with those guys now that they have someone in the middle of the line creating pressure.

[BigBen07 285]

A few anecdotes for this Chiefs season:

 

-They are the first team in NFL history to earn the number one draft pick and be the last undefeated team in consecutive years.

^-Chiefs fans broke the Guinness World Record for loudest crowd roar at an outdoor stadium, which was broken by Seattle Seahawks fans earlier in the season with 136.6 decibels with 137.5 decibels.

 

-Alex Smith of the Chiefs became the first quarterback to win his first eight games with a new team, breaking the record held since 1985 by Dieter Brock

 

-The Chiefs ran their record to 8–0, becoming the first team ever to start the season 8–0 after finishing the previous season with the league's worst record.

 

-The Chiefs 28-2 win over the Jacksonville Jaguars is the first time in NFL history a game ended with that score.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Chiefs are also the first team to hold their first 8 opponents to 17 points or less in every contest.

Jamaal Charles' streak of 100 yards from scrimmage and a TD also came to an end when he failed to find the endzone against the Browns.

I can't wait to see that Broncos matchup, I just hope the Chiefs don't try outsmarting themselves on offense like the Redskins did this last week. After you are up 21 - 7, you don't call a plethora of deep routes that go incomplete so you go 3 & Out and in essence give Peyton the ball back extremely quickly and more often.

[RazorStar 4,025]

Unstoppable Force meets an Immovable Object. I know I can't wait.

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

 

-The Chiefs 28-2 win over the Jacksonville Jaguars is the first time in NFL history a game ended with that score.

 

The Jacksonville Jaguars, earning the right to the wrong side of the history books one week at a time.

[AL_Royalty 489]

I don't really have anymore to fuel the Alex Smith debate, however I do have a couple things on my mind about the Chiefs.

 

Dwayne Bowe is really grinding my gears right now. Or should I say Andy Reid? Or should I say Alex Smith? Who knows! Bowe is a top receiver in the league, and they can't even get him the football. He's shown with lousy quarterbacks, usually 2 or 3 in one season, that he can produce huge numbers. Yet, they can't get him the football? Do you know how frustrating this is as a person who drafted Dwayne Bowe in the 5th round? I mean, damn!

 

 

Dontari Poe is a stud. I thought for sure this kid would bust out, he showed up this year with some serious motivation. The Chiefs defense was great last year, but Poe generating pressure in the pass game and clogging the lanes in the running game has greatly elevated this defense. He opens up so much for Justin Houston and Tamba Hali, they can drop those guys into coverage when they need to or they can rush them. It's actually pretty amazing to watch what they can do with those guys now that they have someone in the middle of the line creating pressure.

I called the Poe thing. He was a beast just waiting to beast out. As for Bowe, it would be all kinds of frustrating to me too if we weren't winning every game. That being said though, they really need to find a way to get him the ball. I believe that they figured it out in the game against the Texans, but he had to contend with Haden in a game that he played injured. Look for him to start being more productive going forward. I think he's going to have a MONSTER game against Denver tbh.

 

A few anecdotes for this Chiefs season:

 

-They are the first team in NFL history to earn the number one draft pick and be the last undefeated team in consecutive years.

^-Chiefs fans broke the Guinness World Record for loudest crowd roar at an outdoor stadium, which was broken by Seattle Seahawks fans earlier in the season with 136.6 decibels with 137.5 decibels.

 

-Alex Smith of the Chiefs became the first quarterback to win his first eight games with a new team, breaking the record held since 1985 by Dieter Brock

 

-The Chiefs ran their record to 8–0, becoming the first team ever to start the season 8–0 after finishing the previous season with the league's worst record.

 

-The Chiefs 28-2 win over the Jacksonville Jaguars is the first time in NFL history a game ended with that score.

This Chiefs team is doing historical things, for sure. They're not just "The first since..." They're the first in a few different categories. They're also leading the league in a lot of defensive stats.

 

There's someone every season that plays the NFL's easiest schedule. I'd like to know how many of them go 8-0. Regardless of who they're playing, they haven't lost. That's impressive.

[KempBolt 498]

 

 

What it comes down to is how you decide whether or not a player is "good." A good team can win with Smith at QB, but I don't believe the 49ers or Chiefs won because of him. More that they just didn't lose because of him. And I generally don't consider a player better than 'average' if he's at about replacement level (i.e., you could replace him with another middle of the road talent and the team's fortunes would not change). I mean, you put Mike Glennon on the Chiefs and what do you have? Probably a 7-0 team. 6-1 at worst. However, you put Alex Smith on the Chargers or Packers and you probably have 1 or 2 win teams because those teams' success are driven by their excellent QB play. And their QB's look good because they are asked to put the team on their backs and they play well. As opposed to being asked just not to screw it up.

I disagree. Glennon on the Chiefs could easily be 4-4. IMO, he is not good at all, not even average, atm

 

Alex Smith torched the Saints in the playoffs two years back. He is capable of doing some surprising things. And all the Chiefs need him to do to have a chance at winning ballgames is not turning the ball over.

 

He is not "turnover prone" for the past three years, not really sure what going back further than that is meant to say. He's not the same guy as the 2009-era Alex Smith.

Exactly my point. Glennon can't even be fairly called good right now, and his play has been very similar to Smith's. Completion %, YPA, TD:INT...

all very alike. If anything, the biggest difference is that more if asked of Glennon as a play maker.

 

And that famous game against the Saints... 24/42, 299, and 3 touchdowns. A good day, not great... against a defense that went on that next season to be the worst statistical passing defense in NFL history. And when people keep having to refer back to "that one game," it's not a good sign. A good QB would have replicated or topped that by now.

 

He was turnover prone the last time he was asked to throw deep patterns with regularity. Yes, that was a while ago. But referring to what he actually did in the past seems more valid to me than simply conjecturing what he might do now (but doesn't) if he tried. The fact that both offensive staffs with whom he's had success have specifically designed conservative offenses that revolve around running and high % passes should tell you all you need to know. Their approach is a pretty clear indicator that it's risky to ask him to make plays down the field.

[AL_Royalty 489]

 

 

Exactly my point. Glennon can't even be fairly called good right now, and his play has been very similar to Smith's. Completion %, YPA, TD:INT...

all very alike. If anything, the biggest difference is that more if asked of Glennon as a play maker.

 

And that famous game against the Saints... 24/42, 299, and 3 touchdowns. A good day, not great... against a defense that went on that next season to be the worst statistical passing defense in NFL history. And when people keep having to refer back to "that one game," it's not a good sign. A good QB would have replicated or topped that by now.

 

He was turnover prone the last time he was asked to throw deep patterns with regularity. Yes, that was a while ago. But referring to what he actually did in the past seems more valid to me than simply conjecturing what he might do now (but doesn't) if he tried. The fact that both offensive staffs with whom he's had success have specifically designed conservative offenses that revolve around running and high % passes should tell you all you need to know. Their approach is a pretty clear indicator that it's risky to ask him to make plays down the field.

 

Yeah, that or they don't need him to go deep and be risky regularly. That could be why they don't ask him to do so all the time. Even for the really good/great QB's those are low % plays. Why should he throw 20+ yards if he doesn't have to? Just to prove to Kempbolt that he can? How about the fact that when they've needed a throw of 20+ yards this season, he's hit one.

[Turry 755]

KC is built for the playoffs. Nasty D spear headed by the combo of Houston and Hali. Followed up by that running game.

[KempBolt 498]

 

 

 

Exactly my point. Glennon can't even be fairly called good right now, and his play has been very similar to Smith's. Completion %, YPA, TD:INT...

all very alike. If anything, the biggest difference is that more if asked of Glennon as a play maker.

 

And that famous game against the Saints... 24/42, 299, and 3 touchdowns. A good day, not great... against a defense that went on that next season to be the worst statistical passing defense in NFL history. And when people keep having to refer back to "that one game," it's not a good sign. A good QB would have replicated or topped that by now.

 

He was turnover prone the last time he was asked to throw deep patterns with regularity. Yes, that was a while ago. But referring to what he actually did in the past seems more valid to me than simply conjecturing what he might do now (but doesn't) if he tried. The fact that both offensive staffs with whom he's had success have specifically designed conservative offenses that revolve around running and high % passes should tell you all you need to know. Their approach is a pretty clear indicator that it's risky to ask him to make plays down the field.

 

Yeah, that or they don't need him to go deep and be risky regularly. That could be why they don't ask him to do so all the time. Even for the really good/great QB's those are low % plays. Why should he throw 20+ yards if he doesn't have to? Just to prove to Kempbolt that he can? How about the fact that when they've needed a throw of 20+ yards this season, he's hit one.

 

 

Well, beyond 20 yards this year he's 3 of 13.

 

For the first five seasons of his career, throwing deep meant lots and lots of turnovers. Then his coaches (Harbaugh AND Reid) stop asking him to throw deep. And I'm supposed to believe that he really can do it but he just doesn't need to?

 

Even with the 49ers under Harbaugh, his overall TD to INT ratio was 30:10 but on his passes attempted beyond 10 yards it went to 12:8. And he only threw 1 INT over the middle under Harbaugh, but he tossed 10 picks when he tried to go outside the hash marks.

 

It's very easy to prove that Smith can't make plays down the field with any type of consistency, or overall positive return. Because he's been in the league a long time and hasn't been able to. Conversely, it's very difficult to prove that he can make those types of plays with a modicum of consistency because the argument basically has to be "We don't know that he can't do that thing that he's never been able to do because they've stopped asking him to do it." That just doesn't hold water.

 

I'll continue to say the same thing- the Chiefs have a great overall roster, but they haven't beaten really good teams and, while that can't be held against them, it's likely that their bad QB play is going to hold them back when they do have to face good teams. Luckily for them, they don't face too many in the regular season this year so continued success can be expected.

 

So my criticism of Smith isn't a means to discount what the Chiefs have been able to do to this point, but rather a factor to consider when looking at the potential for real playoff success. And in reality, ripping Smith's crappiness is a de facto compliment to the rest of the Kansas City roster. You have to be a darn good team to go 8-0 (even against an easy schedule) with a bad QB.

[seanbrock 1,684]

All of you who disagree with me will be proven wrong soon enough.

[The Burfict Storm 39]

Buffalo has a chance at pulling an upset.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

[Attyla the Hawk 197]

I can't wait to see that Broncos matchup, I just hope the Chiefs don't try outsmarting themselves on offense like the Redskins did this last week. After you are up 21 - 7, you don't call a plethora of deep routes that go incomplete so you go 3 & Out and in essence give Peyton the ball back extremely quickly and more often.

 

The Chiefs are one of the few teams that really know who they are. I don't see this likely at all unless they are forced to play catch up.

 

They are an elite front running team. If they get up like that, they'll put the hammer down and starve the clock with spirit crushing 10 play drives.

 

They remind me of the late 80's NY Giants. This team is capable of dictating the tempo of a game in their favor.

 

They are definitely for real.

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

The Denver match up is obviously what we're all waiting for. KC's offense is obviously reliant on the run and Denver's a good run defense (but bad pass defense.) The wildcard is Charles in the passing game. Obviously that pass rush of KC versus Denver's OL is a mismatch, one KC will surely win but Peyton can neutralize that with getting rid of the ball fast like he's known to. Al though ever since the Jacksonville game he's looked much more vulnerable to pressure and sacks than in recent memory (and yet he still puts up 30+ pts.) But if Denver jumps them early and forces them to go away from the run that's a checkmate IMO.

 

It's just so hard to gauge how "for real" the Chiefs due to their opponents thus far, and I wish they played better opponents so we could get an accurate read but we just haven't yet. Will their defense be so good they can overcome facing good QBs and high scoring offenses? We don't know yet.

 

That Browns game last week in Arrowhead was a little worrisome. Maybe they weren't prepared for Campbell not being a trigger shy guy like he was in the past (and how Weeden has always been to an even worse degree.) Their defense definitely did their job and stopped them at the end when the game was on the line, but the Browns have no legit running game and are pretty much one dimensional and to nearly lose against that offense in Arrowhead is worrisome. Maybe they just played down to their opponent and got surprised, great teams have struggled against mediocre teams before so maybe it's not a big deal at all. I just wonder how an offense like Denver does against that defense.

[BJORN 679]

We still have lot to learn about the Chiefs but what I do know is that like Seattle, they have a good defense and they are amazing at home. They have a good start on possibly getting home field advantage in the playoffs. If they do end up getting it, look out is all I'm going to say.

Edited October 31, 2013 by BJORN

[AL_Royalty 489]

We still have lot to learn about the Chiefs but what I do know is that like Seattle, they have a good defense and they are amazing at home. They have a good start on possibly getting home field advantage in the playoffs. If they do end up getting it, look out is all I'm going to say.

If they get home field advantage for the entire run, they really might go to the Super Bowl. I wouldn't know what to do. My freaking head will probably burst.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Chiefs defense has only given up 11 TDs on the season but have scored 6.