Top 10 LBs

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Lol. Nobody knows how to hype up players like JD.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I am the best at hating on them too... See: Brandon Marshall.

[Dutch 874]

Lol. Nobody knows how to hype up players like JD.

 

Yeah. Jordy Nelson is a top 10 WR.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

It's not my fault you guys are ignorant. :sarcasm:

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Gonna mark down how many snaps Von takes rushing the QB & at the LoS. I'll post the results, and if it is more than 50-60%, I'd consider him a pass rusher specialist.

 

You'd be wasting your time imo. Miller spends a majority of his time as the 'over' linebacker when they are in a 4-3.

 

He also drops back in coverage in less then 15% of his snaps of his total snaps as apposed to almost 50% for LBs who play the traditional roles. Not to mention that he usually has the green light to go after the QB even when he's in coverage if the QB leaves the pocket. In fact, he rushes the passer so much that according to PFF, he does it more often then he plays the run.

 

But don't let that fool you, we can extrapolate from the minimal amount of work he does in coverage that, no doubt, he'd be elite if he was asked to do so.

[RazorStar 4,025]

DeMarcus Ware did similar things in his prime, except he was set in a 3-4 so pass rushing was as natural as breathing to the guy.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

In fact, he rushes the passer so much that according to PFF, he does it more often then he plays the run.

You're holding the Run-Pass ratio of Von's opponents against him? LOL. That's more ludicrous than leaving Von out of this conversation.

 

He drops into coverage more than DeMarcus Ware ever has, yet people have no issue listing Ware as a "complete player" that's just as good in coverage as setting the edge and rushing the passer. Same with Terrell Suggs.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Zack_of_Steel

[theMileHighGuy 656]

#10B Danny Trevathan

 

:allhail:

 

----

 

I think if Von would've went into A&M wanting to be a MLB, he could've been the best MLB ever. I say 'went into' because he hasn't been honing his coverage skills for that long. He's just passable in coverage, but there isn't a linebacker in the league with better instincts for breaking on a ball carrier. He'll just 'settle' for being the best SAM/DE ever

 

He should be on this list though. As for his % stats... people don't run the ball that much vs. the Broncos.

Edited June 30, 2014 by theMileHighGuy

[KempBolt 498]

You're holding the Run-Pass ratio of Von's opponents against him? LOL. That's more ludicrous than leaving Von out of this conversation.

 

He drops into coverage more than DeMarcus Ware ever has, yet people have no issue listing Ware as a "complete player" that's just as good in coverage as setting the edge and rushing the passer. Same with Terrell Suggs.

 

Who in their right minds says that Ware and Suggs are just as good in coverage as they are at rushing the passer or setting the edge? That's crazy talk.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Everyone in the world? Suggs is a shit, overrated player, but the perception is there.

[AL_Royalty 489]

I wasn't as up in arms about the omission of certain awesome LB's as others in this thread, but their points are more than valid. Positions, much like everything else in life, evolve. Should we make two different TE threads: the REAL TE thread and the ones who just get all the public praise for catching passes, which is only one facet of a multi-faceted position? Should Gates and Graham and Davis and Gronk be left off because they get too many TDs? It's not ALL that they do, but it's what they do most/best.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Charles-in-Charge

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

This thread reeks of ignorance/opinion

 

Linebackers can have so many roles, duties, parts in a defense depending on scheme. You are gonna have a wide variety of lists because LB's are used differently across the NFL...

 

There's really no way you can make a top 10 LB list because you already have in your mind what criteria they should meet before you even make your list. Hence, why I refuse to make a list.

[BJORN 679]

Pretty unsure of the order, esp in the top 5 but this is roughly what I'm thinking.

 

 

1. Willis

2. Bowman

3. David

4. Derrick Johnson

5. Kuechly

6. Washington

7. Lee

8. Dansby

9. Burfict

10. Alonso

[Dutch 874]

I wasn't as up in arms about the omission of certain awesome LB's as others in this thread, but their points are more than valid. Positions, much like everything else in life, evolve. Should we make two different TE threads: the REAL TE thread and the ones who just get all the public praise for catching passes, which is only one facet of a multi-faceted position? Should Gates and Graham and Davis and Gronk be left off because they get too many TDs? It's not ALL that they do, but it's what they do most/best.

 

The thing about the TE analogy is that they all have the same role being the same position. Each linebacker position has a different role. Yes, each TE may participate in different facets of the TE role more than others depending on their skill set but not based off their position. However, with that ROLB position, that is their main role to rush the passer.

 

In general:

 

I voted Von Miller as the best defender in the NFL in that other thread (even though I knew I should have went with Watt). So it's pretty obvious Von Miller would be at the top of my list. Miller is extremely great at everything but he specializes in rushing the passer; that's what he does the most. Considering all of the talent at the 3 positions, I decided to separate the list and give pass rusher specialist their own category. The talent is too vast and their roles vary to great degrees and the pass rushers

Edited July 1, 2014 by Dutch

[Turry 755]

This thread reeks of ignorance/opinion

 

Linebackers can have so many roles, duties, parts in a defense depending on scheme. You are gonna have a wide variety of lists because LB's are used differently across the NFL...

 

There's really no way you can make a top 10 LB list because you already have in your mind what criteria they should meet before you even make your list. Hence, why I refuse to make a list.

It goes both ways. Is it really fair when 9 times out of ten when you see a top ten LB list everybody on the list is a 3-4 OLB and is on that list beacause of sacks. Is that really fair to the true 4-3 OLB such as Greenway who has been a beast year after year but to be left off lists all the time because he does not play in a scheme or in positions thats gets him a lot of "sexy" stats like sacks. Thats why you make two lists for linebackers kinda like what Mayock did in all of his draft rankings up until this year....

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

Gonna mark down how many snaps Von takes rushing the QB & at the LoS. I'll post the results, and if it is more than 50-60%, I'd consider him a pass rusher specialist.

 

I know this isn't EXACTLY what you're looking for, but just to add to the conversation, according to PFF, Von Miller played 552 snaps, rushed the passer 256 times, played run D 221, and played in coverage 75 times.

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

It goes both ways. Is it really fair when 9 times out of ten when you see a top ten LB list everybody on the list is a 3-4 OLB and is on that list beacause of sacks. Is that really fair to the true 4-3 OLB such as Greenway who has been a beast year after year but to be left off lists all the time because he does not play in a scheme or in positions thats gets him a lot of "sexy" stats like sacks. Thats why you make two lists for linebackers kinda like what Mayock did in all of his draft rankings up until this year....

 

I'm not even talking about OLB's

 

3-4 ILB's and 4-3 ILB's are different beasts, that's what I'm saying should be separate.

 

Making a top 10 list of ILB's from both schemes is like having a top 10 list of 4-3 DE's and 3-4 OLB's IMO.

 

Different scheme, different roles, just too broad of a category saying top 10 LB that aren't pass rushers.

[Turry 755]

 

This thread reeks of ignorance/opinion

 

Linebackers can have so many roles, duties, parts in a defense depending on scheme. You are gonna have a wide variety of lists because LB's are used differently across the NFL...

 

There's really no way you can make a top 10 LB list because you already have in your mind what criteria they should meet before you even make your list. Hence, why I refuse to make a list.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not even talking about OLB's

 

3-4 ILB's and 4-3 ILB's are different beasts, that's what I'm saying should be separate.

 

Making a top 10 list of ILB's from both schemes is like having a top 10 list of 4-3 DE's and 3-4 OLB's IMO.

 

Different scheme, different roles, just too broad of a category saying top 10 LB that aren't pass rushers.

Somehow you failed to mention that, Point still stands.

Edited July 1, 2014 by monstersofthemidway

[Dutch 874]

It goes both ways. Is it really fair when 9 times out of ten when you see a top ten LB list everybody on the list is a 3-4 OLB and is on that list beacause of sacks. Is that really fair to the true 4-3 OLB such as Greenway who has been a beast year after year but to be left off lists all the time because he does not play in a scheme or in positions thats gets him a lot of "sexy" stats like sacks. Thats why you make two lists for linebackers kinda like what Mayock did in all of his draft rankings up until this year....

 

Basically this. A top 10 list of all linebackers would be primarily 3-4 OLB who rush the passer because of sacks. That's why I basically separated the list. Someone said that it is based off of what role you value more but sacks are the most effective (drive killers; disrupt line of scrimmage = win) and are the sexy stat. I don't see the problem of separating the traditional linebackers with those who primarily rush the passer and put in a position to do so.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Dutch

[seanbrock 1,684]

 

I'm not even talking about OLB's

 

3-4 ILB's and 4-3 ILB's are different beasts, that's what I'm saying should be separate.

 

Making a top 10 list of ILB's from both schemes is like having a top 10 list of 4-3 DE's and 3-4 OLB's IMO.

 

Different scheme, different roles, just too broad of a category saying top 10 LB that aren't pass rushers.

If you break them into that many categories there'd be a lot of scrubs on those lists lol.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

If you break them into that many categories there'd be a lot of scrubs on those lists lol.

It's only fair though.. Make a Top 10 LB list for every position and scheme. Primary coverage guys get a list, primary run stoppers get a list, primary good at nothing gets a list...

 

 

[Dutch 874]

It's only fair though.. Make a Top 10 LB list for every position and scheme. Primary coverage guys get a list, primary run stoppers get a list, primary good at nothing gets a list...

 

ILB/MLB and OLB are similar enough to be put in the same category. Pass rush LB's has a more distinct and contrasting role compared to the other two which can justify them having their own category.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Dutch

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

We've gone from discussing top 10 LB to how we should break down the position to make our top 10 list for LB. Interesting.

 

This is sort of like the same kind of deal I tell guys at work, you spend so much time thinking and writing something that looks great down on paper that three things happen:

1. It never materializes and gets placed into action

2. Too much thought for it's own good

3. Theres simply no point to it when you go back and look at it again a year from now.

[butta54 371]

From what I read so far this thread got out of hand, and I think it's funny how this LB arguement comes up every single off-season.

 

Anyway I agree (as everyone should) that LBs have different roles depending on scheme and their coach. We do understand that as OLB in an 3-4 defense your alignment and duty will be very different from a OLB in a 4-3. Honestly even the playing a ILB in a 3-4 is different than a LB in a even front because your reads are totally different.

 

Now as far as not being able to rank LBs I don't believe that is the case. Like scouting and evaluating college and high school players there are a set number of skills that each position should be able to do. No matter what level you play on that position has basic skill sets that they need to perform. Scheme and philosophy adds and takes away responsibilities, but the basic skills remain. So it is very easy to watch and rank LBs if you know what you are looking for and know how to evaluate their skill level.

 

The issue comes to the position. Over the last three years I've stop counting 3-4 OLB the same as 4-3 OLB because they are different positions especially how a majority of teams uses them. Pass rushers is much more the appropriate position title. This doesn't mean that is all they do, but their value is much more in their ability to play on the edge and create pressure than the rest. Can Von Miller play a flat to curl and not blow coverage? Very possible.....Can Clay Matthews stand over the guard read the G pull and scrape the A gape quick enough to stuff the play? Maybe he can......BUT the fact is that is not their jobs and so we don't rate them on that. The positions are different otherwise it wouldn't be a different scheme.

[Dutch 874]

The issue comes to the position. Over the last three years I've stop counting 3-4 OLB the same as 4-3 OLB because they are different positions especially how a majority of teams uses them. Pass rushers is much more the appropriate position title. This doesn't mean that is all they do, but their value is much more in their ability to play on the edge and create pressure than the rest. Can Von Miller play a flat to curl and not blow coverage? Very possible.....Can Clay Matthews stand over the guard read the G pull and scrape the A gape quick enough to stuff the play? Maybe he can......BUT the fact is that is not their jobs and so we don't rate them on that. The positions are different otherwise it wouldn't be a different scheme.