Patriots Accused Of Deflating Footballs

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Doesn't matter, Garoppolo will take Brady spot anyway.

[Jayrus 51]

I remember when this whole 'deflated balls' thing first came out. I just shrugged it off at the time and forgot about it. It just didn't seme like much of a big deal. Then it got forgotten for months except for the odd article that seemed to exist just to remind people that it had happened, and to try and build it up into a big deal. I really expected it to not go anywhere, or for anyone to be punished for it.

 

Now here we are with investigations, reports, arguements, and Brady appealing a four game suspension. It boggles my mind that this has gone so far. I just can't see deflating a football a couple of PSI as being on the same level as bountygate, or spygate, or any of the other major NFL scandals, despite how badly people seem to want to make it so. Maybe the ball is slightly easier to handle because of it. That applies to both teams so there is no advantage for the Pats that I can see.

 

Many have said that this has no longer become about the act itself, and I have to agree. It feels like this whole thing is just being used as an excuse to punish the Patriots for past crimes either real or percieved. A chance to bring the mighty Brady down to earth with the rest of us mere mortals. What's the saying? Making a mountain out of a molehill? This is exactly that. I see no reason to crucify the Patriots for something so minor in the grand scheme, but as they say, the public loves a scandal.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Jayrus

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

 

 

One source texted ESPN's Adam Schefter saying he thinks Tom Brady's four-game suspension could be overturned altogether.

Another source described the legal team Brady is putting together for his appeal as "unreal." It's made up of a load of experienced lawyers, including Jeffrey Kessler. Many believe Brady at least has a better than even chance to have his suspension reduced. "I don't think the Patriots are going to go quietly into the night," Schefter said. "I think this story is just getting started." Deflategate still has months to go, but smart money is on Brady not serving his full four-game ban.

Source: ESPN.com

 

Since the Ray Rice stuff went down and the Commish appointed a special person to go through and handle the sppeals process, I think he constantly over does his suspensions knowing and expecting reductions. It's a lot better to over do it and then have them overturned rather than under do it and get blasted by the public.

 

 

 

Ah I see. So A-Rod just tries to cheat, but if the refs catch him, he doesn't try to get around it. But if they don't, he's fine playing with an over-inflated ball.

 

Wait, so it doesn't matter unless there is some kind of proof? Oh okay then. Then we can dismiss this whole thing because there is zero proof of anything. It's all conjecture, going against Anderson's own memory in some cases.

 

The fact that the Patriots routinely have to let air out of the balls because the NFL always gives them over-inflated balls, (16 PSI overinflated)- to the point where someone names themselves "The Deflater"- means nothing, I guess.

 

The fact that the woman who was involved with Hardy had already got money from three other celebrities in similar circumstances is totally meaningless and not at all suspicious. Nope, it's not possible she was up to something and Hardy is totally guilty.

You sound incredibly ignorant on the topic and it honestly just sounds like more of a grudge you have than anything with the league. It's time to get over it, man.

 

EDIT: Also, the double posts are kind of annoying. You have to be doing that on purpose to annoy people, aren't you? lol

Edited May 14, 2015 by Favre4Ever

[Thanatos 2,847]

Since the Ray Rice stuff went down and the Commish appointed a special person to go through and handle the sppeals process, I think he constantly over does his suspensions knowing and expecting reductions. It's a lot better to over do it and then have them overturned rather than under do it and get blasted by the public.

 

 

You sound incredibly ignorant on the topic and it honestly just sounds like more of a grudge you have than anything with the league. It's time to get over it, man.

 

EDIT: Also, the double posts are kind of annoying. You have to be doing that on purpose to annoy people, aren't you? lol

 

As I stated in another topic, the multiquote option often fails for me. But sure, I must be doing that on purpose.

 

And so sad that I sound ignorant because I don't take what the NFL feeds me blindly.

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

This entire situation bothers the sports portion of my brain immensely. There are so many problems with the punishment that Tom Brady received, and the punishment that the Patriots as a team received. At least in the way I look at it.

I understand that the NFL paid millions to have this investigated and to have a report released on the matter and that Wells can discuss and formulate any sort of opinion in his own report that he so wishes, but it as a whole it was a complete wash. What we know is that there were text messages sent among two staff members of the New England Patriots that had the ability to control the pressure in the footballs and had the means and opportunity to make such changes to the footballs prior to the game, despite the fact that if the NFL officials were doing their job fully and efficiently, this opportunity never should have taken place.

We know that the two employees were talking about Tom Brady. We know that one of the employees had discussions with Tom Brady on several occasions leading up to the issue. What we don't know is the context of those specific conversations. What was being said by Brady, how what was being said was actually taken as to the context of what it actually was to mean.

What we don't know is any bit of portion of Tom Bradys side of the argument. Brady decided not to help the NFL investigate. Do you blame him? How many times have we now seen the NFL and reporters take the context of something and fix it how they so chose just to make themselves seem right? Brady had no real reason to help them with their investigation.

 

What bothers me even more so is how wishy washy this report is. The report in a round about way basically states, "I, Ted Wells, have found no real evidence that Tom Brady did have the Patriots employees lower the air pressure in the footballs, but I have no real evidence that says he didn't either. Therefore, he's guilty."

It makes no sense, none. This report had nothing to do with finding him guilty or not guilty of this though, we all knew that going in, which is the dumbest part of everything. Goodell and his employees are trying to renew their "tough" approach after being smashed the past year and a half over serious punishment issues in the NFL. Everyone knew they were going to slam the first offenders they could, this is it. But did they really get it right? To punish a player with no real proof of doing bad?

Come on NFL....

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

As I stated previously, Ben was suspended 6 games (reduced to 4 for "following league mandates" or whatever the fuck) for simply being accused of rape. There was no evidence, the DA didn't even take it to court, and the girl changed her story/withdrew the charges. But yeah, Tom Brady the martyr!!!!!!!

[Maverick 791]

Relatively even? There's an 18-play difference between the Redskins and the Ravens... and also an 18-play difference between the Ravens and the Patriots. There are so many potential variables there the idea that that chart proves anything is laughable. Sure, the Patriots letting air out is a possible explanation, but far from the only one.

 

You really can't look at the graph and see the anomaly here?

 

Look at the numbers from the Redskins to the Ravens. The largest difference in # of plays from a team adjacent to the next team is 3. Most are separated only by 1 or 2. Then you have the Patriots with 18 more plays per fumble than the next closest team to them. If you're familiar with graph terms, 18 would be an outlier. Now, as I stated in my earlier post, considering that same team is allegedly deflating footballs which would make it easier for their players to hold onto the football.....you don't find anything eerie about that statistic? I'll even post a picture of the graph for those too lazy to click the link.

 

[Vin+ 3,121]

 

The Patriots are claiming the term "Deflator" was used to reference Jim McNally losing weight, not deflate footballs.

The Patriots have launched a website called WellsReportContext (linked below) that responds to the assertions made in the Wells Report. "The conclusions of the Wells Report are, at best, incomplete, incorrect and lack context," the introduction says. The site goes on to cite a Nobel Prize winner about PSI levels and makes the insulting claim that football handler McNally called himself the "Deflator" because he was trying to shed pounds. We've reached new lows in the absurdity of Deflategate.

Source: Wellsreportcontext.com

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

^lmfao

 

 

A good post on this subject from another board:

 

Ok, I am going to lay this out for the obtuse Pats fans… your team is lying. That is obvious. This report that is trying to explain away the Wells report is full of so many stretches that it cant be taken as anything other than a desperate grasp at avoiding punishment… this isn’t some righteous defense of a good man, its literally the most obvious weasel attempt to not be punished…

 

 

First of all it claims Brady NEVER has directly said he wanted balls underinflated, but we know that multiple interviews can be produced where he infers he likes balls that are underinflated and other cases where he complains about the league’s criteria for the inflation of balls.

 

We also know of one case of a QB from another team accusing them of using practice balls instead of game balls before they could legally provide their own, and another where the league actually sent a warning to the team for doing so.

 

Tom Brady was the biggest proponent of the rule change, he obviously has a great amount of care about the subject…. That absolutely provides motive.

 

Secondly the focus is whether the temp that day could have caused the balls to deflate to the point they were… which is wrong… the focal point for the scientific debate is literally like .02 psi… but again, in the grand scheme of things that ultimately doesn’t matter…. Whether there is definitive proof that the balls were physically deflated or not is mostly irrelevant… that a Patriots employee illicitly removed the gameballs for an amount of time after they were taken and measured by the refs is the only thing that you need to focus on here.

 

Lets put this in perspective, Ryan Braun once challenged a positive drug test because the collector wasn’t able to send the sample by the normal fed-ex on the same day it was collected. The sample was completely sealed in multiple containers, had every seal and signature intact, was stored properly and never left the possession of the certified collector, but because the collector circumvented the typical procedures, the arbitrator ruled that they should suspect the worse scenario of tampering, even though there was no proof of it or reason to suspect it…. Its like that with steroid tests too, if you take a masking agent, the league suspends you because at that point you cant definitively tell whether cheating was happening or not…….

 

The minute those balls were intentionally taken to the restroom, the rules violation was done… at that point it becomes up to the violators to prove they didn’t cheat, not the league to prove that they did.

 

Thirdly,at that point the burden of proof lied on the team, and they opted to cooperate a little, until some evidence was found, then they quit. This isn’t a small thing… brady was offered a very simple task of letting his lawyers go through his phone and give the investigation only the texts between these men… they opted not to do that… their reasoning falls short of credible.

 

Lets point out here that Brady lied about knowing one of them and lied about contact with them… we know this.

Lets also point out that stories have changed multiple times.

Lets also say that the explanations of the texts are absolutely ludicrous and laughable…

 

 

I will say this once more… this isn’t criminal law…. The NFL doesnt need to prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt. They simply have to have a logical reason to believe this took place and they can act.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Zack_of_Steel

[Thanatos 2,847]

Except basically three-quarters of that post you just quoted is factually incorrect or based on jumps in logic and reasoning such as the Wells report uses in doing things like dismissing Walt Anderon's recollection of which pump he used in pre-game because it doesn't fit the narrative.

 

Seriously, the guy said that he used the other pump, the one that would mean there was no problem with the PSI in 10 of the 12 balls. The Wells Report decides he's wrong on this, but right on every other detail.

 

This company finds out whatever whoever hired them wants them to find out, as proven by their report on second-hand smoke.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Thanatos19

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

"That's wrong"

[Thanatos 2,847]

I already typed up a long post talking about the factual holes in the report itself in this thread, and the response was to say that clearly I was simply ignorant and hadn't done any research. So if you want to actually debate this, go back to that post. I thought no one really cared anymore, and just wanted to repeat media drivel as if it is fact.

 

The fact is that Walt Anderson claims he used the pump with the higher PSI in pre-game, meaning that 10 of the 12 balls would not be under-inflated past what the Ideal Gas Law would predict in this situation. The only problem arises because the Wells report insists, contrary to Anderson's best recollection, that he used the other pump to measure the PSI pre-game and give no satisfactory reasoning why they do so other than it doesn't fit the narrative.

 

And this, of course, means nothing, right?: http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2015/05/11/deflategate-report-consulting-firm-has-history-conflict-interests/9kCXbYqioq7QmzoCZdl7wM/story.html

 

This firm has produced similar reports that Asbestos and Second hand smoke don't cause cancer.

 

They have a history of conflict of interest, such as being hired by Chevron to do a study saying their toxic waste dump doesn't cause cancer in the Ecuadorian rainforests, without disclosing that one of Chevron's board of directors was a majority shareholder in Exponent.

 

They are a shady, shady firm. They found this "evidence" because the NFL wanted them to find it.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Thanatos19

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Just responding the way you did. "That's wrong. No explanation necessary"

[әightninә. 39]

ITT: People who haven't taken a science course since twelfth grade argue about scientific theories in relation to footballs being under-inflated.

 

Listen, I hate the Patriots as much, if not more than most. There's not a single team in the league I'd rather see go down fast than New England. Although this investigation is a little sketchy, and the suspension is pretty harsh given the evidence found, the New England Patriots are blatantly lying in an attempt to save face.

 

If there's nothing to be found, and they're as innocent as they claim, then allow a second interview with McNally. Then have Brady turn over his phone.

 

Also, why does McNally even take the footballs to the bathroom? If I read the report correctly, isn't it policy for the balls to always be under the supervision of the officials during halftime?

 

If it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck...

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Just responding the way you did. "That's wrong. No explanation necessary"

That's his typical line of defense. Don't expect anything more from him, lol.

 

Also, LMAO at "the deflator" being in reference to weight loss. The Patriots think we are all incredibly stupid.

[Thanatos 2,847]

That's his typical line of defense. Don't expect anything more from him, lol.

 

Also, LMAO at "the deflator" being in reference to weight loss. The Patriots think we are all incredibly stupid.

 

I posted a fucking essay earlier in the thread and no one responded to it. But sure, just keep on deluding yourself that thats all I do.

[RazorStar 4,025]

So Karlos Dansby is accusing the Patriots of messing with headsets during a 2008 game.

[BLUE 1,026]

Per Rotoworld.com:

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell will personally preside over Tom Brady's appeal of his four-game suspension.

Reporter Mike Freeman calls the development "huge and unexpected." The NFLPA had been seeking a neutral arbitrator. With Goodell personally taking responsibility for the case, he's putting the result squarely on his own shoulders. We'd interpret it as the commissioner looking for an out after a week of brutal publicity. It wouldn't be shocking if Brady's four-game ban was slashed to 1-2 games. Although it's become clear there were willful rule violations by the Pats, this is a molehill that's become a mountain. Ball pressure simply isn't that big of an advantage, and appears to be a rule that is skirted league wide, not just in New England. May 14 - 10:27 PM

Source: Mike Freeman on Twitter

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

 

To sum up this whole thread

Edited May 15, 2015 by ATL

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

So Karlos Dansby is accusing the Patriots of messing with headsets during a 2008 game.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/14/dansby-suspects-foul-play-from-2008-game-in-new-england/

 

And this isn't the first time this has been brought up. Multiple other teams have experienced this and the Patriots have been found using multiple suspicious, unapproved audio frequencies in the past, as noted int he last thread about the Patriots cheating.

 

http://www.thegridironpalace.com/forums/index.php?/topic/68531-attn-phil-zack-addresses-spygate/

[Piggly Wiggly 960]

Why didn't Dansby bring this up immediately after the game? Probably because it was a 40-point curb stomping? lol.

 

Waiting on some player from the 2009 Titans squad to suddenly make an accusation from the 59-0 snow game.

[FartWaffles 1,857]

Waiting on some player from the 2009 Titans squad to suddenly make an accusation from the 59-0 snow game.

Belichick owns a weather machine, obvs.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Looks like PFT dug up the info I already posted forever ago.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/15/patriots-have-been-accused-of-tampering-with-communications-before/

[Thanatos 2,847]

Oh look. Even more problems with the Wells report.

 

I can't believe you guys are hanging your hat on this piece of shit authored by one of the shadiest companies in the business.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/14/questions-remain-about-colts-footballs-at-halftime/

 

They didn't write down the fucking PSI that they measured at the beginning of the game. They rely on Walt Anderson's best recollection of what they were set at, and then dismiss his best recollection of which gauge he used because that would show that the Patriots balls were fine. This report is a sham. This guy sums it up. It's 100% impossible to show any wrongdoing because you have no starting point.

 

 

This point of only 4 Colts balls being tested makes it impossible for me to buy anyone’s insistance that this wasn’t a “gotcha” against the Patriots.

Time limits be damned, if you’re trying to do something, do it right – especially if it’s going to result in allegations of cheating against an NFL team. THis isn’t Pop Warner. Clearly, if you’re testing one team’s balls you need to test all of the other teams’, as well.

I will also add that it is impossible…IMPOSSIBLE…to prove any deliberate tampering on the part of NE without knowing what the balls were set at prior to the game.

Asking the ref to remember is nonsense. That’s no kind of evidence. Especially when one “best recollection” is taken as gospel but another is disregarded because it doesn’t fit the report’s chosen narrative and conclusion.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Thanatos19

[Vin+ 3,121]

What's the point of a "gotcha" though? The Pats have already been made examples of in the past, and it serves no purpose to the league to say the reigning SB champs cheated.

 

Unless this is a league-wide issue, which I doubt.