Mass Shooting at Pulse in Orlando

[RazorStar 4,025]

You're right, we aren't.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

Is there any new info out on this? I've been at work all day.

[Maverick 791]

Ignoring the amount of radical Islamist isn't a solution to any problem either. The number of radical Islamists is so much dramatically higher compared to any other religion's radicals that it isn't funny. The % of terrorist attacks caused by radical Islamists compared to any other religion or demographic is insane.

 

Religion as a whole is an awful thing on this planet, but Islam, at least as it stands now, is by far the worst of the group(in terms of producing radicals), and it's showing 0 signs of slowing down. It's actually showing a ton of signs of speeding up.

+1

 

People like to bring up the Crusades. lol...

[Thanatos 2,847]

Don't know how true this is, but I saw on the news that he had been investigated by the FBI before for terrorist sympathies. They even said he had been interviewed by a few agents. Again, don't know if that's true and haven't really bothered to check it.

 

But if it is true, how the fuck is he able to buy a gun legally? This is why background checks are necessary. You know, after I got out of the mental hospital, I asked my psychiatrist if I could theoretically get a gun (I had always expressed interest in owning a handgun for a shooting range in the future). She said that not only would it personally be unwise for me to get one, but that I likely wouldn't be able to procure a gun from a legitimate gun shop because of my hospitalization. So, why is it that a guy like me, who has struggled immensely with mental illness but has also done exceedingly well in school and has no violent history whatsoever, can't buy a gun through normal means (I supposedly could go get one at a gun show if I really wanted), but a guy who may have been investigated for terrorist sympathies was able to get one legally?

I can't believe people oppose basic background checks on all gun purchases. There is literally no way you can justify this. I really hate when people immediately politicize these for gun arguments immediately after they happen, but this is just so fucking ridiculous. If I can't buy a gun because I wouldn't pass a background check at a gun shop, there's no way in hell that someone who (maybe) was investigated by the FBI should be allowed anywhere near one.

 

Of course, there's the possibility that either the news was (unknowingly, hopefully) false information or that they were intentionally exaggerating information for gun debate purposes. If that's the case, then I don't know what my response has to do with the tragedy. I hope I'm wrong and that this guy wasn't just allowed to get a gun even with that history. That would be downright pathetic.

 

EDIT:

 

 

Yeah, he was on a terrorist watch list. I'll try to look how long ago that was and how long ago he bought the guns, but no way he should have been allowed legal possession of those weapons (frankly if he legally bought them before being investigated I don't think it's unreasonable to confiscate them).

 

 

According to Obama, the feds legally cannot stop someone who is on a terrorist watch list from buying a gun. That's how insane the NRA's pull is.

[Thanatos 2,847]

Let me clarify. I have no issue with moderate Muslims in first world countries. The ideologies of personal wellness and morality are fine by me. The issue is that in a third world nation with a shit power structure and an extreme faith in Islam, you see radicalization way too often. Islam is not the problem. Radical Islamist practitioners are the problem.

 

The joke is funny. If it weren't I wouldn't have posted it. Take it or leave it. Don't sit and be all butthurt about it when you don't know anyone who was killed or wounded in the shooting. You have no connection to them and shouldn't feel offended by a joke.

 

A lot of that post was anger but my argument I intend to make still stands. Was mainly pissed off by the media and everyone I know trying to dodge the fact it was an extremist and just cry about the deaths of members of the LGBT community.

 

We can debate the effectiveness of gun control. I'm by all means down for it.

 

A large section of the LGBT community is incredibly welcoming to Islam and sees it as diversity. They view it as their American friend who wears a hijab and reads Harry Potter, not as a jihadist who beheads people in the desert of a foreign nation. Many mild Islamic practitioners still believe in radical ideas. In nations like Saudi Arabia women can be sold off by their fathers and be beaten horrendously by cruel husbands, to just name one awful example. It's wrong to characterize third world Islam as anything but wrong.

 

I've seen a large push for total outlawing of all firearms lately. Everyone is screaming gun control (it's trending on Twitter today IIRC). That doesn't solve the problem though. They just buy black market.

 

The issue is that we refuse to identify him for what he was. An extremist who turned to ISIS and radical Islam and decided to kill for it.

 

"I want to be tough and vigilant" somehow translates to FUCK THOSE GAYS I WAS RIGHT FUCK MUSLIMS.

 

A platform is based entirely on the results of events. If terrorism has been an event, it will be used as a platform.

 

I really do not know what the fuck you are talking about.

 

I have quite a few gay friends, online and in real life. Literally not a single one of them likes Islam. In fact, they have made some very strong statements about Islam, statements that I would be uncomfortable making. Don't let HuffPost or some other liberal media make you think the LGBT community somehow likes Islam.

 

No one is pushing for outlawing all firearms, much less a "large push" for it. Regulation is the thing, not outlawing all of them. It should be at least as hard to own and use a gun as it is to own and drive a car.

 

Who is refusing to identify him for who he is? The news media was all over it. I know more about Oman than I ever cared to know. We don't need to sensationalize these assholes. I'd rather not even know his name. I'd love to have a news media that wouldn't even tell us his name but instead focused their coverage on the victims and celebrated their lives.

 

As for them just buying black market: You're flat wrong. We can debate it if you like, wrong thread for that, but suffice to say many countries have banned assault weapons and the like and it has drastically reduced gun violence.

 

"I want to be tough and vigilant" is fine. Starting the tweet by boasting about being right- when 50+ people were just killed- is not. It's the actions of a vile little man who has to make everything about him. Fuck Donald Trump.

[oochymp 2,393]

this interview always comes to my mind when people talk about religion promoting violence, the best part starts around 3:40, the quote of the segment comes at 5:10: "God does not make you a bigot, you're just a bigot"

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Don't say that "no one" wants to completely get rid of guns... I have seen a couple Facebook posts already saying the opposite, ha. Definitely a small majority, but talking in absolutes gets people into trouble.

 

Also, I think a lot of politicians are acting disgracefully. Donald Trump's tweet was uncalled for... And we had the President of our country, stand up and make gun control a focus. Milla was right earlier... this guy was a radicalized whack job. How do you, as the President, not talk about radical Islam or even mention it? And why gun control? How about we get an overhaul to the care we show and give people with mental health problems.

 

He talked for what.. 5 1/2 minutes or so? And almost half that time was spent talking about the weapons used, how easy it is to get them, etc etc.

How disgusting to use the graves of almost 50 people for your pulpit.

(Yes, I am aware he isn't the only politician or President to do such a thing and I am not insinuating as such. He's just the guy right now so that's who we get to talk about).

Edited June 13, 2016 by Favre4Ever

[Cherry 1,302]

 

Mostly everything on social media that I saw was conveniently ignoring the fact that the shooter was Muslim, or was saying that the LGBT support Islam and is against the hatred that will rise against them after this. Purely anecdotal but that's a large reason why I raged at first post.

 

 

 

Also, this is from one of the people at my school that got into a gigantic twitter war. This was another part of the rage.

 

https://i.groupme.com/844x1500.jpeg.2e0040258c6b420dbf544fbab86fba7d.large

 

 

 

Also...

 

https://i.groupme.com/844x1500.jpeg.49ce61c15ef9447eb8c7632249d71390

Edited June 13, 2016 by Chernobyl426

[BwareDWare94 723]

I agree that people in general are lazy, but someone who is radical enough to murder 50 people is likely more motivated than the average person. I'm not against potentially making it a little harder to get a gun but I don't want the government telling people what they can and can't have either. This country needs less laws and less government control, not more.

 

This is a very flawed way of thinking. Lots of people are capable of flying off the handle and harming others. It's unfortunate but it's true. Do you know why most of them don't? The opportunity doesn't present itself. We can absolutely prevent some gun violence with some basic, common sense legislation. Like Thanatos said, why is it harder to get a Driver's License than a firearm? Isn't that completely ridiculous?

 

It's not about government control, either. It's about those of us who go to work with more than 10 coworkers, those of us who like to go to crowded bars and restaurants because they serve great food, those of us who like to attend sporting events, concerts, etc.

 

We have the right to feel safe at these places. I mean, let's be real here, who hasn't been a little bit uncomfortable in a movie theater since Aurora? Who hasn't been consistently scanning the room, noticing where the exits are, watching anybody who gets up? Is it logical? Probably, but it's hard to feel completely safe anymore.

Edited June 13, 2016 by BwareDWare94

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

 

This is a very flawed way of thinking. Lots of people are capable of flying off the handle and harming others. It's unfortunate but it's true. Do you know why most of them don't? The opportunity doesn't present itself. We can absolutely prevent some gun violence with some basic, common sense legislation. Like Thanatos said, why is it harder to get a Driver's License than a firearm? Isn't that completely ridiculous?

 

It's not about government control, either. It's about those of us who go to work with more than 10 coworkers, those of us who like to go to crowded bars and restaurants because they serve great food, those of us who like to attend sporting events, concerts, etc.

 

We have the right to feel safe at these places. I mean, let's be real here, who hasn't been a little bit uncomfortable in a movie theater since Aurora? Who hasn't been consistently scanning the room, noticing where the exits are, watching anybody who gets up? Is it logical? Probably, but it's hard to feel completely safe anymore.

 

Maybe I am just not reading your response correctly or... something, but you and me don't kill 50 people because the... opportunity doesn't present itself? I strongly strongly disagree with that sentiment.

 

Firstly, I don't feel like I would rampage and shoot up a gay club and injure or kill nearly 100 people under any circumstance. Maybe you can get crazy with scenarios and say I would do it if I was kidnapped, drugged, and brainwashed into doing it, sure.. But even under immensely unique circumstances, I don't think 99% of this country would do that. Yes, we may over react or react poorly to different situations. Yes, we may even at times hurt people. But to the level executed either here or in other terrorist attacks on our soil -- no... We wouldn't respond in that manner.

 

Secondly... Those tragedies only happen because the opportunity presents itself? What about people enjoying life and the weekend at a club is "opportunity presenting itself" to a terrorist? What about children going to school like normal kids is opportunity presenting itself at Sandy Hook? What about going and watching a movie at a theater is opportunity presenting itself to James Holmes?

 

People doing normal things is not opportunity presenting itself. It sounds almost like victim blaming, in a weird way to me. There is nothing those people did or what they were doing that presented this opportunity to a criminal, murderer, or terrorist.

 

It's more those crazed and sick people convincing themselves of their actions or justifying to themselves that what they are about to do is "right". They then go and seek out those people (whether it's targeted or not) and do what they do.

 

And even if I did misread that... Say those are "opportunities", that completely destroys your first point -- because we all go to places where there are large gatherings of people and so do millions of others. Even though opportunity is presenting itself to me at the movie theater, I am not shooting people. Even though I go to the Impractical Jokers tour in a events center with thousands of others doesn't mean I am going to start shooting people.

 

But... the opportunity is right there?

 

So what makes me and you different from a James Holmes or other such person? I will tell you right now, it isn't a "better opportunity".

 

It's a sickness. A disease. A disillusionment. A warped sense of reality.

[Thanatos 2,847]

By no one I meant no one in the political sphere- i.e. anyone who has any chance of actually getting such a bill on the table.

 

I don't think anything would have stopped this guy from getting ahold of weapons. He already had an assault rifle, which I'm pretty sure is illegal anyway. That doesn't mean that our current gun control laws aren't completely and utterly absurd. Anytime anyone mentions anything about gun control the immediate response is "You can't touch guns at all, its the Second Amendment."

 

We need to have more responsible gun ownership in this country, period. Do I think it would have stopped Oman? No. But it would stop a great deal of the gun violence in this country. A lot more than 50+ people die to gun violence. We're just so shocked by this because they all happened at the same time.

[blotsfan 2,112]

You know why focusing on Islam is dumb?

 

Because on THE VERY SAME DAY a white, probably christian guy was caught trying to shoot up/bomb the LGBT Pride parade in LA. This is not an Islam problem. Less than 1% of mass shootings are perpetrated by a Muslim. 100% of them involve guns. Which makes more sense to look at?

[Cherry 1,302]

You know why focusing on Islam is dumb?

 

Because on THE VERY SAME DAY a white, probably christian guy was caught trying to shoot up/bomb the LGBT Pride parade in LA. This is not an Islam problem. Less than 1% of mass shootings are perpetrated by a Muslim. 100% of them involve guns. Which makes more sense to look at?

 

Many white christian guys throwing gays off buildings lately?

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

As hard as I try to wrap my head around it, I still can't. And this is coming from someone who hears everyday about way more casualties then this from my parent's home in Central Africa.

 

50 souls, people who were just out to have a good time. My heart and prayers go out to all the families of the lost ones. This is just heartbreaking.

[blotsfan 2,112]

Many white christian guys throwing gays off buildings lately?

 

No, they shoot up planned parenthoods.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

You know why focusing on Islam is dumb?

 

Because on THE VERY SAME DAY a white, probably christian guy was caught trying to shoot up/bomb the LGBT Pride parade in LA. This is not an Islam problem. Less than 1% of mass shootings are perpetrated by a Muslim. 100% of them involve guns. Which makes more sense to look at?

 

Politicians don't care about that. They care about passing legislation that furthers their platform. That's why they only have press conferences over the incidents that have the best chance of doing that.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

Actually the majority of really bad things that have happened here weren't done by Muslims.

 

Columbine, not Muslims. Virginia Tech, not Muslims. Charleston, not a Muslim. Sandy Hook, not Muslims. Oklahoma City Bombing, not Muslims. What we have in this country isn't a Muslim problem. It's more of a "bad people do bad shit regardless of their religion" problem.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Actually the majority of really bad things that have happened here weren't done by Muslims.

 

Columbine, not Muslims. Virginia Tech, not Muslims. Charleston, not a Muslim. Sandy Hook, not Muslims. Oklahoma City Bombing, not Muslims. What we have in this country isn't a Muslim problem. It's more of a "bad people do bad shit regardless of their religion" problem.

I think it's obvious that both religious and non religious people do bad things. Ignoring that this was a terrorist attack and that the man responsible proclaimed his allegiance to ISIS is not a good look. It fosters a deeper level of fear than what is necessary in the American public -- although, that is what is needed to pass more legislation.

 

I know it may seem like a silly comparison, but think of Harry Potter and He Who Shall Not Be Named. Avoiding the truth only instills more power to those who don't deserve it.

 

 

[BwareDWare94 723]

 

Maybe I am just not reading your response correctly or... something, but you and me don't kill 50 people because the... opportunity doesn't present itself? I strongly strongly disagree with that sentiment.

 

Firstly, I don't feel like I would rampage and shoot up a gay club and injure or kill nearly 100 people under any circumstance. Maybe you can get crazy with scenarios and say I would do it if I was kidnapped, drugged, and brainwashed into doing it, sure.. But even under immensely unique circumstances, I don't think 99% of this country would do that. Yes, we may over react or react poorly to different situations. Yes, we may even at times hurt people. But to the level executed either here or in other terrorist attacks on our soil -- no... We wouldn't respond in that manner.

 

Secondly... Those tragedies only happen because the opportunity presents itself? What about people enjoying life and the weekend at a club is "opportunity presenting itself" to a terrorist? What about children going to school like normal kids is opportunity presenting itself at Sandy Hook? What about going and watching a movie at a theater is opportunity presenting itself to James Holmes?

 

People doing normal things is not opportunity presenting itself. It sounds almost like victim blaming, in a weird way to me. There is nothing those people did or what they were doing that presented this opportunity to a criminal, murderer, or terrorist.

 

It's more those crazed and sick people convincing themselves of their actions or justifying to themselves that what they are about to do is "right". They then go and seek out those people (whether it's targeted or not) and do what they do.

 

And even if I did misread that... Say those are "opportunities", that completely destroys your first point -- because we all go to places where there are large gatherings of people and so do millions of others. Even though opportunity is presenting itself to me at the movie theater, I am not shooting people. Even though I go to the Impractical Jokers tour in a events center with thousands of others doesn't mean I am going to start shooting people.

 

But... the opportunity is right there?

 

So what makes me and you different from a James Holmes or other such person? I will tell you right now, it isn't a "better opportunity".

 

It's a sickness. A disease. A disillusionment. A warped sense of reality.

 

You're putting words in my mouth. I said "lots of people" not "everybody" is capable of violence. Many people are. How many unhinged individuals do you know or have you encountered in your life? How many creepy stalker jealous exes do you know among your friends and family? I'm not saying everyone with problems is capable of committing a massacre, but they are certainly capable of violence if they are very unhinged over a period of time when they could easily access a firearm, anything can happen.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

 

You're putting words in my mouth. I said "lots of people" not "everybody" is capable of violence. Many people are. How many unhinged individuals do you know or have you encountered in your life? How many creepy stalker jealous exes do you know among your friends and family? I'm not saying everyone with problems is capable of committing a massacre, but they are certainly capable of violence if they are very unhinged over a period of time when they could easily access a firearm, anything can happen.

 

Even the "unhinged" people or "creepy stalker jealous types" that I do know... I don't think maybe any of them would shoot up a school. Although maybe you just run in different circles than I do, ha.

[BwareDWare94 723]

 

Even the "unhinged" people or "creepy stalker jealous types" that I do know... I don't think maybe any of them would shoot up a school. Although maybe you just run in different circles than I do, ha.

 

I'm talking about capable of violence in general. Once a person loses control, is it possible to put a ceiling on what they might do? I just find so many people to be disturbingly not OK, if that makes sense.

 

Of course, it doesn't help that nobody wants to help because they are so bothered by the person's actions, but if it's mental illness, it's not like they can help it or change on the drop of a dime. Mental health is definitely a major issue in this country, and the stigma has to be fought as hard as we fight for treatment.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

 

I'm talking about capable of violence in general. Once a person loses control, is it possible to put a ceiling on what they might do? I just find so many people to be disturbingly not OK, if that makes sense.

 

Of course, it doesn't help that nobody wants to help because they are so bothered by the person's actions, but if it's mental illness, it's not like they can help it or change on the drop of a dime. Mental health is definitely a major issue in this country, and the stigma has to be fought as hard as we fight for treatment.

I think it's relatively possible to put a cap or ceiling on what those people may do. Like I said earlier, ya, maybe they go further than I would or whatever. And maybe they even cross the line and hit criminal territory. But I really think pulling something off like what happened in Orlando or Aurora or Sandy Hook takes a special set of circumstances combined with somebody that is not just "unhinged" but far beyond that.

 

Again, that's just my opinion. Maybe I am giving those people too much credit.

[Bangy 19]

You know why focusing on Islam is dumb?

 

Because on THE VERY SAME DAY a white, probably christian guy was caught trying to shoot up/bomb the LGBT Pride parade in LA. This is not an Islam problem. Less than 1% of mass shootings are perpetrated by a Muslim. 100% of them involve guns. Which makes more sense to look at?

 

I was about to bring this up actually, so I am glad that you did. It's a shame this didn't get more recognition to prove that a lot of the LGBT hate isn't just muslims. Remeber you guys have that nice happy clappy psychotic Westboro baptist church out there.

 

 

Many white christian guys throwing gays off buildings lately?

 

Dude you are making your points against against muslims as a whole when in actual fact the point you are referencing to were made by radicals which is a small percent of muslims who are also pretty much renounced by the majority of the faith. I don't want to say your points are seeming racist but your getting closer to that point right now man.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Bangy

[Sarge+ 3,436]

Even in Colombia they make fun of our gun laws:

 

 

"When you are in USA and you want to sneak food to the cinema."

[OSUViking 505]

Stop with gun law BS, this man was clearly radical and any sort of gun laws would not have stopped him. I'm tired of hearing this stuff after every shooting. Bad things happen, it sucks but that is the way of life. Let's stop letting our fear of bad things help give the government more control over the people.

 

Have you ever experienced rage? I'm genuinely curious. My depression usually manifests either in suicidal thoughts or rage, usually the latter. There have been times where I couldn't open my fist for a week without excruciating pain from punching holes in walls. But I always stop short of actually taking that anger out on people. I am so tempted to just go up to a random person on the street or even one of my roommates and just unload that anger on them. Really, nothing in the moment is stopping me. I'm not thinking clearly at all, so I'm going to go ahead and say that it's not logic that's stopping me from doing it.

 

What's stopping me from doing it is honestly the effort. It's one thing to punch a hole in a wall and then spend five minutes patching it up, but it's another thing to exert actual energy in subduing someone and then unloading on them. It's also not worth the amount of clean-up that it will take. Imagine destroying a friendship or being charged with assault vs. spending a few bucks to fix the wall.

 

Anything that makes me expend too much energy is enough to dissuade me from doing it in this state. There's like that law or something that I hear all the time, things tend towards the path of least resistance.

 

Laws may or may not prevent this from happening in the future. It says something about our country that this is one of the few if not the only place where mass shootings happen every few months or so, save for active or recovering war zones. I can say from personal experience that making it harder for someone to complete a task is a game changer. By no means am I saying I'm on the level of a man who is bent on murdering fifty people, but the comparison between myself in my present state and when the rage takes over is quite shocking to say the least (or so other parties have told me).