blotsfan 2,112 Posted August 16, 2017 It sounds like you don't have a good argument for keeping the statue of Lee up so you're just arguing for tearing down them all. Incidentally, this is the same argument trump and the white supremacists (lol not sure why I'm acting like they're separate entities) use. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Favre4Ever+ 4,476 Posted August 16, 2017 Why do you keep doing this? You literally just make shit up and respond not in order to have a conversation but to put yourself on that false moral high ground so that you can continue to demean and look down on people.That post wasn't about keeping the Lee statue up. You came at me talking about good VS evil and the "grand scale of life". That's what I responded to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OSUViking 505 Posted August 16, 2017 I never said you did. I'm just saying if you still do, there's no excuse. Misunderstanding on my end then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted August 16, 2017 So what is your argument? I don't have a problem with statues of Washington and MLK because despite their faults, Id define them as generally good people. If you disagree, then fine you can argue that their statues should be taken down. I also define lee as a bad person because he fought for the confederacy which I want his (and all confederates) to have their statues removed. What's your argument for keeping them up? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oochymp 2,393 Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) Baltimore took down Confederate statues last night, which begs the question: why the hell did Baltimore have Confederate statues? Edited August 16, 2017 by oochymp 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted August 16, 2017 Baltimore took down Confederate statues last night, which begs the question: why the hell did Baltimore habe Confederate statues? Because the entire country has problems with racism, which is what those statues signify. There is a confederate monument in Montana. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241 Posted August 16, 2017 Baltimore took down Confederate statues last night, which begs the question: why the hell did Baltimore habe Confederate statues? This was actually my first question when I saw that this morning. Lol. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241 Posted August 16, 2017 Robert e. Lee's monument was specifically to celebrate and honor his efforts in helping the confederacy. As is the case with every single monument in question. If there was, or is, a monument somewhere out there where George Washington is being honored for the slaves he had or his contribution to slavery then we can have this conversation. Additionally, I know a many group of black people who oppose the national anthem because of when it was written, honoring George Washington and other slave owning presidents in their communities, hell don't even celebrate 4th of July because blacks weren't free, etc. So it's not like those people don't exist. They simply don't run around demanding all these things change because they understand the difference between something made to honor someone for the good that they did, and something made to honor someone as a form of oppression and for the evil they did. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BJORN 679 Posted August 16, 2017 Baltimore took down Confederate statues last night, which begs the question: why the hell did Baltimore habe Confederate statues? Maryland was divided when it came to the civil war. Still a good question. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oochymp 2,393 Posted August 16, 2017 Maryland was divided when it came to the civil war. Still a good question. True, as with most border states, but they were never part of the Confederacy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Favre4Ever+ 4,476 Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) Robert e. Lee's monument was specifically to celebrate and honor his efforts in helping the confederacy. As is the case with every single monument in question. I am not saying you are wrong.. However, every statues commission is different, to say otherwise isn't factual. The guy who commissioned that statues was known for his philanthropy, he had a French Medal of Honor, and built parks for black kids in Virginia (this was pre Civil Rights). Why would he do that if he was so excited to celebrate Lee's fight to keep slaves? Edited August 16, 2017 by Olenna4Ever Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ATL_Predator+ 1,196 Posted August 16, 2017 Baltimore took down Confederate statues last night, which begs the question: why the hell did Baltimore have Confederate statues? Because there are some people that side with the Confederate mindset of revolting from the current government. Maybe not the whole idea of the Confederacy itself... but that aspect. I support the Confederacy in the regard that they had a plan of action AND established a government aside from the Union and stood up for what they believed in. That's shit we need today. Don't get edgy on me with the slave shit, my view on that is obvious. However, if you truly study why there was a civil war, slaves were NOT the main reason. It comes down to money, resources, railroads, and ultimately being able to do things your own preferred way. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oochymp 2,393 Posted August 16, 2017 The weird thing in Baltimore, which I didn't feel like getting into while I was on my phone, is that one of the statues they took down was of Supreme Court Chief Justice Roger Taney. The reason for the connection is that he wrote the Dred Scott decision, but he was still Chief Justice of SCOTUS and was from Maryland. This is where I think there may be some merit to the slippery slope argument, I'd put that on par with something like a city in Tennessee tearing down a statue of Andrew Jackson because they didn't like his Indian removal policy. (pure hypothetical, I don't even know where any statues of Andrew Jackson are in Tennessee, much less if there's been any push to remove them) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seanbrock 1,684 Posted August 16, 2017 Spin it however you want. You voted for a nazi sympathizer to be president. Spin it however I want? Dawg, it was my vote, whether you agree with my reasons or not, there's no spin. It's just one man's opinion and one man's vote. Maybe I'm wrong. It happens often but my reasons were my own I'm sure Trump is racist as was/is Hillary but that's not the same as being a Nazi sympathizer and Trump is yet again voicing the opinion of a large portion of white male demographic that helped him win the White House. Every Republican President since the parties flipped and the Republicans became the conservative party again has been supported by KKK and other White Supremacist groups. Whether you like it or not he's not turning his back on who got him to the White House. He can't afford to do that. I don't agree with the push back against removing statues and flags but although many of the protesters were racist I don't even think all these people are overly racist if they're even racist at all. White men feel like they're under attack...because they are. By feminists, by the media etc. Did you ever see MLK going around talking about how terrible White Men are? No, he knew he needed white people on his side to accomplish his goals so his message was inclusive and peaceful. Usually if you're trying to make somebody understand something you don't start off by telling them how much of an asshole they are right? Maybe PhilElliot has it right this time. We're being divided. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BwareDWare94 723 Posted August 16, 2017 Yeah, Trump is a Nazi sympathizer. Rigggghhhtttt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sarge+ 3,436 Posted August 16, 2017 Just in the event that you guys still don't understand blots' argument, here is his soulmate to drill it into your dense skulls one more time. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted August 16, 2017 Did you ever see MLK going around talking about how terrible White Men are? No, he knew he needed white people on his side to accomplish his goals so his message was inclusive and peaceful. Ooh you know I can't resist this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Favre4Ever+ 4,476 Posted August 16, 2017 A pastor in Chicago is beginning a new movement by writing to the mayor demanding that (George) Washington and (Andrew) Jackson Parks / Statues be removed and renamed. That was actually faster than I thought it would happen. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/aug/16/rahm-emanuel-urged-by-chicago-pastor-to-remove-geo/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BwareDWare94 723 Posted August 17, 2017 A pastor in Chicago is beginning a new movement by writing to the mayor demanding that (George) Washington and (Andrew) Jackson Parks / Statues be removed and renamed. That was actually faster than I thought it would happen. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/aug/16/rahm-emanuel-urged-by-chicago-pastor-to-remove-geo/ Slippery slope indeed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted August 17, 2017 Andrew Jackson was a genocidal monster who should never be mentioned in a positive context. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seanbrock 1,684 Posted August 17, 2017 Ooh you know I can't resist this. Does this prove your point or mine? I'm confused. This is definitely more inclusive and eloquent than anything I've heard come out of any social justice warrior's mouth. I never said we should have to wait for justice. I really hope you're not trying to equate the efficacy of King's message to that of this current bs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.AirMcNair. 1,232 Posted August 17, 2017 Statues of anyone is fucking retarded. Hell, even sports statues aren't sacred. Bet Penn State felt real safe having that Joe Pa statue, seemingly good guy, great coach..whoops, turns out he hid the molestation of children. What a waste of money his statue was. No statue should exist because most people in history are not worth honoring. George Washington isn't, MLK isn't, Robert E Lee and other confederate generals aren't, Joe Pa isn't, Abraham Lincoln isn't, he's looked at as this fucking deity that fought to free slaves when he really could have given a fuck all about black people/ending slavery. The fact that the revisionist history exists that the union and Lincoln was some holy group/man that heavily believed in freedom for black people is hilarious to me in this day and age when it's quite obviously not the case, but we've still got people honoring Lincoln for "freeing the slaves", like he gave a shit. I'm all for the confederate statues going down, but I would also like to see all statues of people go down. At least of those proven to be pretty shitty people, and just cease on ever erecting any more statues because of bullshit like this. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OSUViking 505 Posted August 17, 2017 Humans are the worst things to idolize. We're all just awful. Andrew Jackson was a genocidal monster who should never be mentioned in a positive context. Fucking thank you. Why he is regarded as a good president is beyond me. He was a monstrosity and his policies had direct negative consequences that lasted for decades. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted August 17, 2017 Nah Statues are cool and good because they can be defaced. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ATL_Predator+ 1,196 Posted August 17, 2017 Humans are the worst things to idolize. We're all just awful. Fucking thank you. Why he is regarded as a good president is beyond me. He was a monstrosity and his policies had direct negative consequences that lasted for decades. He managed to push his hate agenda.... Your Nazis and Alt Right want to follow him in his footsteps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
