Lebron better than Jordan?

[WindyCitySports 407]

 

Nathaniel S. Butler/NBAE/Getty Images

 

An open mind is all that is required to see the position LeBron James has earned.

I was reading the paper. My wife was making a cup of tea.

 

She does not watch a lot of sports, but she did watch the Heat eliminate the Bulls, and wanted to talk about LeBron James.

 

At every moment, she explained, she expected James to succeed. When he shot, she expected it to go in. When he hunkered down on defense, she expected him to get the stop. He didn't hit every shot, nor get every stop.

 

But close enough.

 

That's not normal in basketball -- a game of teamwork, frenzy and mistakes. But it is normal for those in the highest reaches of the sports pantheon.

 

Looking down, at the pages of the newspaper, the story of LeBron had grown tortured and complicated. Even on the day he made the Finals, it was riddled with contortions about whether this or that announcement or celebration was correctly honed.

 

Looking up, at my wife, it was clear as day: She had just defined "the next Michael Jordan" and it was LeBron James.

 

Scottie Pippen was on Mike & Mike a couple of hours later.

 

Michael Jordan is probably the greatest scorer to ever play in the game, but I may go as far as to say that LeBron James may be the greatest player to ever play the game.

 

We've been in the hunt for that guy forever and bingo. Two objective eyes from outside sports, or Pippen's perspective from deep inside, were arriving at a big conclusion that had lost to so many in a haze of expectations, quirks and crankiness.

 

The seeds of James' certain doom have been identified by a cast of thousands. I remember an NBA powerbroker telling me last summer that if James didn't win a title soon, all that "Witness" stuff was going to look incredibly stupid. The teammates he chose are too talented (or, in the case of all of them not named "Dwyane Wade," too flawed). There is too much partying in Miami. He doesn't perform at his best in this or that part of the game. He shoots too much. He defers too much. He talks about himself in the third person. He left. He didn't tell the Cavaliers first. He threw a party in honor of himself. He's too big and strong. It's bad for parity. He seems a little fake.

 

Some of that could even be a basis for real criticism. He simply is not perfect. Most of the bitterness, however -- especially that not from poor ditched Cleveland -- strike me as fancy manifestations of jealousy. People despise him hardest in the cities that wanted him most. (So is he terrible, or wonderful?)

 

Jordan was an otherworldly player, perfectly packaged in a TV era. James is a similarly other-worldly player, packaged imperfectly, in an information age when it's damn near impossible (Tiger Woods!) to control the message. The days of gauzy perfection are gone -- we, as fans, know way too much now.

 

This is what sports heroism will feel like from now on. Oohs and aahs overwhelming catcalls. That the audience is divided is no sign the basketball is less perfect.

 

They did this to young Jordan, too. Pore through the media accounts of his early NBA days. At some point before his first title, he was plainly the best player in the league. But that story was too simple, too wrong, too premature. The taste-makers needed a championship ring to embolden opinion with the sureness of hindsight.

 

But they were too late. Rings, based on so much luck, health and team, are a slow and sometimes incorrect way to determine which individual player plays best. Rings don't pick the greats. Instead, they alleviate the risk of calling someone great. You can't look dumb calling a champion a hero. But that doesn't mean the best might not yet be a champion.

 

Through it all, though, the freight train of James' production was somehow obscured. To call James the greatest has been to be accused of bias. Those who saw the majesty of Jordan in the early years were not biased pro-Jordan. They were the objective ones. They were right.

 

Now, to watch James play, without bias, is to see the same thing.

 

It's noteworthy that to the high priests of objectivity in hoops -- the stat geeks -- James has long been, almost no matter how you analyze, the best player in the league, and Jordan's only rival. Daryl Morey said a few months ago that it was hard to identify any flaw in James, and John Hollinger first made a very strong, evidence-based "he's the next Jordan" case years ago, and nothing much has changed since then.

 

James has been just about this good for a while. Use your highlights, your numbers, or simply a pair of open eyes. Whatever the tool, so long as it's not gummed up with preconception, it'll see that LeBron James is the best "next Michael Jordan" we've ever had.

Bullshit. No one will ever match Jordan's dominance.

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

Shut the fuck up. Just shut. the. fuck. up.

 

Directed at the writer of this, obviously.

[SteVo+ 3,702]

I voted for the "hell no" option but not just because Jordan had more talent; LeBron's legacy will forever be slighted because he played alongside Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh. Though MJ definitely had a great supporting cast, he never played with two players as good as Wade and Bosh.

[RazorStar 4,025]

Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman...

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

It's not outa the question... he could go down as the greatest ever. Anybody who thinks that at the end of his career considering the way his career has gone so far, it's impossible is just kidding themselves.

 

But idt it will ever happen, I think he will go down as one of the top 10-5 greatest players in the history of the NBA...

 

Now as far is he a better player right now? No. But can he when his career is in the books be a better player? yea I think so. Regardless, there are just some people who feel a certain way, and no matter what LBJ does, or really anyone, it seems like people will just never look at that person over Jordan... Even if that person does end up being better.

[NaTaS+ 958]

Why the fuck do we care about what this dudes wife does or thinks?

[BucD+ 648]

 

I'm not even going to dignify it with a vote.

 

Michael is Michael...Kobe is Kobe...Lebron is Lebron.

 

Not only that, but this is a different era of basketball being played.

 

Comparisons to MJ are so old and just flat out annoying.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

LeBron is more like Magic, Kobe is more like MJ. In terms of their style of play. And in all reality, Wade is probably, style-wise, more like MJ than anyone. But Wade also has a lot of James Worthy in his style of play, too. And Kobe a lot of Jerry West, too. The point is that a lot of today's players borrowed elements of several players from the past. Although I'd say without hesitation, Chris Bosh is much more talented than Dennis Rodman. That's not even a close comparison.

Edited May 27, 2011 by Sarge

[Shotgun 442]

He'll never be considered better than Jordan by the populace unless he wins more championships, but I could say that skill wise, it's possible he's at least as good as Jordan.

[KiLaSix9+ 398]

If and when he wins 6 championships, lets have this discussion. Until then, it wont matter. They play two different positions, in two different eras with different styles of play. Lebron is the best player in the NBA right now but his legacy, like MJs, will be determined by championships.

[Vin+ 3,121]

Image posting fail.

 

 

http://twitpic.com/53cuqr/full

 

http://twitpic.com/53d7cw/full

Edited May 28, 2011 by BlaineDifference

[BigBen07 285]

 

I'm not even going to dignify it with a vote.

 

Michael is Michael...Kobe is Kobe...Lebron is Lebron.

 

Not only that, but this is a different era of basketball being played.

 

Comparisons to MJ are so old and just flat out annoying.

 

This. I agree with the last part 100%

[WindyCitySports 407]

If and when he wins 6 championships, lets have this discussion. Until then, it wont matter. They play two different positions, in two different eras with different styles of play. Lebron is the best player in the NBA right now but his legacy, like MJs, will be determined by championships.

Exactly.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

LeBron is not better than Jordan, because to be better than Jordan, you also have to be better than this guy...

 

The Lakers compiled a 60–22 record in the regular season and reached the 1980 NBA Finals, in which they faced the Philadelphia 76ers, who were led by forward Julius Erving. The Lakers took a 3–2 lead in the series, but Abdul-Jabbar, who averaged 33 points a game in the series, sprained his ankle in Game 5 and could not play in Game 6. Paul Westhead decided to start Johnson at center in Game 6; Johnson recorded 42 points, 15 rebounds, seven assists, and three steals in a 123–107 win, while playing guard, forward, and center at different times during the game. Johnson became the only rookie to win the NBA Finals MVP award, and his clutch performance is still regarded as one of the finest in NBA history.

 

I'd love to see LeBron do that now, in his 8th season... Magic did it as a rookie...

[Guest Durant4MVP]

I think Lebron has more talent than MJ but that doesn't make him the better player. Besides, Jordan changed the way the game was played and its part of what makes him the GOAT. Lebron hasn't done that (yet).

 

Anyway, why can't Lebron be the first Lebron instead of better than MJ? Some of the best players these days are the ones playing out of position (see: Lebron James, Derrick Rose, Kevin Durant)

[BwareDWare94 723]

LeBron will be the greatest small forward who ever played the game. More like point forward, though. He's an enigma. He has no true position. He can play any of them, including center. He's a completely unique athlete. That's what makes him as great as he is. He will be the second best player of all time, in my book. I might hate what he did to Cleveland, but denying his talent would be foolish. Jordan is his own class, but I really think we need to go generation by generation. Jordan is the greatest of his generation. Kobe, as of right now, is the greatest of this generation. If LeBron can pile up 5 rings (and Kobe will probably get at least one more before he retires), he'll be in the discussion.

 

There really is nothing to debate on right here. These two would have had to play during the same era. Jordan entered the league when defense didn't exist. LeBron is in an NBA where defense is a hot commodity. The game has changed so much.

 

Also, we need to factor in that LeBron is 6'8 or 9 and Jordan and Kobe struggle to reach 6'6. When it comes to the ability to defend any position, LeBron has physical gifts that the other two don't have, and we CANNOT hold that against them.

[HadenIsland23 42]

In all honestly, I believe he will be. IMO he tarnished his career when joining up with the superstars. MJ started on his own, players wanted to come play with him.

[WindyCitySports 407]

I think Lebron has more talent than MJ but that doesn't make him the better player. Besides, Jordan changed the way the game was played and its part of what makes him the GOAT. Lebron hasn't done that (yet).

 

Anyway, why can't Lebron be the first Lebron instead of better than MJ? Some of the best players these days are the ones playing out of position (see: Lebron James, Derrick Rose, Kevin Durant)

You're so wrong.

 

1. I bet last year you wouldn't have even said LBJ was the best active MBA player. Just because he's having one good playoffs (he wasn't even that good in the reg season) now he's the best ever?

 

2. The reason he's being compared to Jordan is because Jordan was the best to ever play the game.

[rzb+ 367]

Absolutely not. Anyone who believes so is just going off of hopes and dreams.

[CARDINAL 205]

LeBron is more like Magic, Kobe is more like MJ. In terms of their style of play. And in all reality, Wade is probably, style-wise, more like MJ than anyone. But Wade also has a lot of James Worthy in his style of play, too. And Kobe a lot of Jerry West, too. The point is that a lot of today's players borrowed elements of several players from the past. Although I'd say without hesitation, Chris Bosh is much more talented than Dennis Rodman. That's not even a close comparison.

 

In reality Lebron James now can only be compared to the Lebron James from his earlier playing years. The same goes for all the other great NBA players of all time.

When doing some type of comparison of Lebron James and Michael Jordan though, in terms of class and character, MJ is a thousand times "greater" in that regard (his dedication to integrity and class in Chicago and giving up a lot of money to play one season to play professional minor league baseball to honour his father's wishes), compared to Lebron James "Decision" episode which showed no charater or class whatsoever, and disregarded the feelings and passion of the Cleveland Cavs fans in the manner of explaining his cecision to leave the team.

In terms of the supporting cast for each player on their respective teams, MJ had a better supporting cast with Scottie Pippen and the great defensive player in Dennis Rodman, also not to forget the mentioning of Steve Kerr, who was a very good point guard and three point shooter. Lebron James really only has Chris bosh and D-Wade, since considering the fact that they combined to scored 69 points of the 83 total team points they scored in Game 5 in the Eastern Conference Final. When three players score 83% of your team's total points, I don't think the words "supporting cast" are accurate, it should more like "benchwarmers and/or roster fillers".

[CARDINAL 205]

In all honestly, I believe he will be. IMO he tarnished his career when joining up with the superstars. MJ started on his own, players wanted to come play with him.

 

IMO, I disagree with you WardPound43 on your opinion that Lebron James will be better then MJ. But I do agree with you on the fact that him "taking his talents to south beach" (Heat) will forever tarnish his career. The greatness of an individual player is whether they can lead and pull their team to great heights (NBA Championship), with them in the drivers seat with a good to very good supporting cast, then a player who plays on a team with three very good players (James, Bosh, and Wade) but no credible supporting (bench) cast. IMO, I think Dirk Nowitzki is a better player then Lebron James, even if it is just in this year's playoffs, because he is leading and pulling his team to vistory over other very good teams (OKC Thunder) with great vision and indivdual play, that helps to make other players (Tyson Chandler, Shawn Marion, DeShawn Stevenson, Jose Juan "J.J" Barea) around him play better. That defines "greatness" for me.

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

...Lebron doesn't even scratch the surface of being as great as MJ

 

1) It's a pathetic argument to begin with, comparing...ANYONE to MJ, because MJ is MJ

2) Y'all keep talkin about the potential of Lebron being the greatest ever? Lemme just say...everyones been sayin that since his rookie season...where's the rings? He already took one shot at the title...and then got swept by a great Spurs team..and his team..and him..didn't show up to play.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

In reality Lebron James now can only be compared to the Lebron James from his earlier playing years. The same goes for all the other great NBA players of all time.

When doing some type of comparison of Lebron James and Michael Jordan though, in terms of class and character, MJ is a thousand times "greater" in that regard (his dedication to integrity and class in Chicago and giving up a lot of money to play one season to play professional minor league baseball to honour his father's wishes), compared to Lebron James "Decision" episode which showed no charater or class whatsoever, and disregarded the feelings and passion of the Cleveland Cavs fans in the manner of explaining his cecision to leave the team.

In terms of the supporting cast for each player on their respective teams, MJ had a better supporting cast with Scottie Pippen and the great defensive player in Dennis Rodman, also not to forget the mentioning of Steve Kerr, who was a very good point guard and three point shooter. Lebron James really only has Chris bosh and D-Wade, since considering the fact that they combined to scored 69 points of the 83 total team points they scored in Game 5 in the Eastern Conference Final. When three players score 83% of your team's total points, I don't think the words "supporting cast" are accurate, it should more like "benchwarmers and/or roster fillers".

 

No. Wade and Bosh are so much better than Pippen and Rodman it's not even comparable. At all. We're talking about a guy who was once a Finals MVP and another guy who at one time was considered a top 3 PF in Basketball, and is still very good.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

2) Y'all keep talkin about the potential of Lebron being the greatest ever? Lemme just say...everyones been sayin that since his rookie season...where's the rings? He already took one shot at the title...and then got swept by a great Spurs team..and his team..and him..didn't show up to play.

 

Well, to be fair, MJ entered the league at what? 22? LBJ entered the league at 19... And in that 1st championship. he was what? 23? It was more then apparent that the Cavs would need more then a 23 year old LBJ to beat a battle tested, savvy vet team like the Spurs... Jordan had a player that many people around the NBA widely consider one of the top 50 players in NBA history in Pippen... LBJ has had.... Mo? Gibson? Ilguaskus?

[WindyCitySports 407]

...Lebron doesn't even scratch the surface of being as great as MJ

 

1) It's a pathetic argument to begin with, comparing...ANYONE to MJ, because MJ is MJ

2) Y'all keep talkin about the potential of Lebron being the greatest ever? Lemme just say...everyones been sayin that since his rookie season...where's the rings? He already took one shot at the title...and then got swept by a great Spurs team..and his team..and him..didn't show up to play.

Thank you. The only point that anyone could even start to think of the possibility of LBJ being better than MJ is if he started pulling in rings. That doesn't mean he would be better than MJ, people could just start to think of the possibility.