Why not London Bucs? Don't assume Jaguars are moving

[NaTaS+ 958]

I usually despise Pete Prisco, I've had a few twitter debates with him over his hate for the Browns. This article is spot on. Why does everyone think the Jags have to move? Why not a crappier sports city, like Tampa? I don't want to see another sports franchise move, it really sucks - but his point is valid. Jags have a struggling team and a smaller market, yet still manage to get more fans that the 'Phins and Bucs.

 

 

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell is a smart man with a vision, even if some players don't think so.

 

He is bullish on London as a home city for an NFL franchise. That is smart. It's going to happen, and it should.

 

The NFL is always looking for more, and the global picture is what they have their eyes on now. But having said that, why is it always the Jacksonville Jaguars who are the team that is mentioned to be moving?

 

When Los Angeles was talking about getting a franchise, it was always Jacksonville.

 

Now it's London. Not to shoot holes in what my colleague, Jason La Canfora, wrote today, because he has his rock-solid sources, but I have been told by league sources that Jacksonville is not alone as a potential London team. And Jaguars sources insist the team isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

 

So why is Jacksonville always the target? Because of the tarps covering seats? That's all anyone ever says. Reality is this: As is, the Jaguars' stadium is still bigger than almost a third of the NFL stadiums in the league. Even with the tarps.

 

Is it their attendance? They averaged more per game than either Miami or Tampa Bay last year -- the two other Florida franchises -- by a lot. The Jaguars averaged 64,984 fans last season to rank 20th. Tampa Bay was 31st at 55,102 and Miami was 29th at 57,329.

 

Last time I checked, the Miami and Tampa markets were a lot bigger, and both teams had better records than the 2-14 Jaguars. So, does that make Jacksonville a better football market?

 

Why not Tampa Bay to London? The Bucs' owners -- the Glazer family -- also own the Manchester United Football Club -- soccer in this country. They know about the market.

 

Yes, the Jaguars have committed to play a game in London in each of the next four seasons. New owner Shahid Khan is trying to build his team into an international one. That is smart.

 

But to just automatically assume it will be Jacksonville making a move is foolish. Is it possible? Sure. If they don't win, the fans don't come, and the attendance dips -- of course, it is. But it's no different for Tampa Bay or St. Louis or any other of the franchises that have either stadium or attendance issues.

 

Back in the day, when the Jaguars started out, they drew more than 72,000 per game. It was new and trendy. Then they won. The crowds stayed. But when they lost, there were no diehards, and attendance dipped.

 

Now the crowd is younger. The kid who couldn't go to school the Monday after the 1996 Jaguars lost in the AFC Championship Game to the New England Patriots is now old enough to buy season tickets. The Ponte Vedra wine-and-cheese crowd has been replaced by a younger, more passionate fan base.

 

Former Jaguars owner Wayne Weaver used to tell me all the time how he needed to just bridge a six- or seven-year gap as the young fans grew into season-ticket buyers. It would have been easy to do if they won. They didn't. That made it tough. But now they are old enough.

 

The fans are coming back. The passion is still there. Jacksonville, contrary to what you might think, has always been a Jaguars town. Not a college town. In 1996, the Florida Gators won a national title. Later that week, the Jaguars upset the Denver Broncos in the playoffs.

 

The Gators' title was a distant second around the office coolers. It was all Jaguars.

 

Tampa Bay has had big-time crowds in the past as well. And they have more big business and a bigger market than what is in Jacksonville.

 

So, why aren't they going to the games there? Something doesn't add up. Tampa Bay was a much better team than Jacksonville in 2012 and didn't draw.

 

What's the better market?

 

I live in Jacksonville. But if the team moved, I could live anywhere. So I really don't care if it does. But I hate to hear all the misinformation about a franchise that isn't nearly as bad as many make it out to be.

 

There's just one problem: Like the rest of the franchises struggling at the gate, you have to win when you are not a legacy franchise.

 

Going 2-14 makes you a candidate for any other market. Do it again after playing a game in London this year, and it will be even worse.

 

That's the reality. What isn't a reality is that Jacksonville is going to London no matter what. They are not alone as a possible team that could move.

 

See Tampa Bay and others.

 

 

[BucD+ 648]

Curious to know what the Jags current stadium deal looks like.

 

I know the Bucs stadium deal goes through like 2025 or 2030, or something like that, which would prevent any potential move until then.

 

For the record, I don't want ANY team to relocate and even more so despise the idea of a team moving to fucking London...or any other country...

 

Fuck that entire idea. Seriously the worst idea by Goodell and his cronies.

Edited June 6, 2013 by BucD

[moocao 10]

I understand trying to expand the league's appeal and all, but actually moving a team to London would be kinda shitty, IMO. For starters, you're making that team jump the pond 8 times a year. That kind of puts them at a disadvantage. Depending on where you're coming from, we could be talking upwards of 15+ hours in the air. I believe the two teams who travel to the London game every year get a bye on the following week, I'm guessing that'll stop. Then there's the fans that you'll alienate here in the states. I guess an extensive cost/benefit analysis is being done (or whatever) to see if this thing is feasible. Personally, I'm not a fan.

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

I understand trying to expand the league's appeal and all, but actually moving a team to London would be kinda shitty, IMO. For starters, you're making that team jump the pond 8 times a year. That kind of puts them at a disadvantage. Depending on where you're coming from, we could be talking upwards of 15+ hours in the air. I believe the two teams who travel to the London game every year get a bye on the following week, I'm guessing that'll stop. Then there's the fans that you'll alienate here in the states. I guess an extensive cost/benefit analysis is being done (or whatever) to see if this thing is feasible. Personally, I'm not a fan.

 

On top of those things, you're not going to have many, if any fans travel. Whether it be an American team playing in London or vice versa. That's going to hurt ticket sales quite a bit by itself.

[Bucman 891]

I can't see any team in London working out. The logistics of the whole thing would be ridiculous.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Campin approves of this thread.

[OakBlack 28]

To begin with there are general problems with moving any team to London. There are legal issues surrounding labor, as most of the NFL's restrictions on labor like the draft, restricted free agency, trades, the waiver wire and the franchise tag would likely be illegal under Europes labor laws. Soccer has been forced to change its rules on multiple occasions, most recently under the "Webster Ruling". The NFL might be able to circumvent some of that by basing a teams facilities and operations in the U.S, while playing games in London. Then other issues would arise too: Most UK NFL fans are of the opinion that an NFL team in London will fail to create a dedicated fan base, while the NFL so far has only played one London game per year instead of the eight games a normal franchise would play. I just don't see this happening! DAMN YOU GOODELL! Do you have to ruin everything?

[FartWaffles 1,857]

I can't see any team in London working out. The logistics of the whole thing would be ridiculous.

On top of that is the fact that I could guarantee that if a team moves to London they will have the absolute worst free agency recruitment. Unless they were to grossly overpay for a player, I just don't see many if any American football players wanting to move to London over staying in the States.

 

As it's been stated many many times before, this is a very stupid idea. I honestly don't even like the fact that the Jags are playing two/three games over there. Khan is just going to alienate his fanbase that he had worked so hard into gaining their trust.

[AllYouNeedIsLovie 377]

I'd consider boycotting the NFL until Goodell is gone if he puts a team in London.

[Bucman 891]

On top of that is the fact that I could guarantee that if a team moves to London they will have the absolute worst free agency recruitment. Unless they were to grossly overpay for a player, I just don't see many if any American football players wanting to move to London over staying in the States.

 

As it's been stated many many times before, this is a very stupid idea. I honestly don't even like the fact that the Jags are playing two/three games over there. Khan is just going to alienate his fanbase that he had worked so hard into gaining their trust.

Yeah that London team would be full of scrubs that no one else wanted or players they drafted. I think the whole thing is a bluff and will never happen, at least I hope so.

[oochymp 2,393]

I am fucking tired of hearing about expansion into England, even if there is interest there it won't work, a team in England could never get a primetime game because 8:30 EST (the kickoff time for primetime games) is 1:30 AM in England, nobody will watch a game at 1:30 AM on tv, much less go to the stadium, and if you don't give the team any primetime games then they won't get any national attention, no matter how good they are, and imagine the jetlag, you think east coast teams have a tough time playing on the west coast? try sending a team from England over there and see what happens, or a team from the west coast to England for a game, or even a team from the east coast, think about it, no matter what team leaves you'll have four teams moving across at least five timezones for divisional games, the longest shift right now for any team is over three timezones, based on timezones, England is as far from the east coast as Hawaii is, that's right, moving the Patriots to England would be functionally similar to moving them to Hawaii and leaving them in the AFC East, a team in England would have to travel through almost twice as many timezones as the longest possible roadtrip every time they're on the road, you want to talk about physical distance? the furthest distance between teams right now is from Seattle, Washington to Miami, Florida which is 2727 miles (straight line) the distance from London to Boston (which would be the closest team) is 3280 miles, that's right, the closest team to them would be further than the furthest possible travel distance, it's just fucking stupid, also I think any owner who says he supports putting a team in England should be asked if he would move his team to England knowing how much travel is involved

I posted that in another thread and will repost it in any thread regarding putting a team in London, moving a team to London would fail, it might be fun for the first couple years, but eventually it will fail, the logistics just make it a nightmare

[Milla4Prez63 678]

Curious to know what the Jags current stadium deal looks like.

 

I know the Bucs stadium deal goes through like 2025 or 2030, or something like that, which would prevent any potential move until then.

 

For the record, I don't want ANY team to relocate and even more so despise the idea of a team moving to fucking London...or any other country...

 

Fuck that entire idea. Seriously the worst idea by Goodell and his cronies.

 

This. People need to realize this every time they mention the Bucs moving, the Glazers cashed in on people paying for RayJay with tax money and this was part of the deal. Also, the Glazers have publicly now stated they have no interest in sacrificing home games to play in London anymore. Meanwhile, the Jags are possibly going to play there twice a year. Not saying either of them move, and I hope nobody moves to London, fuck that. But ticket sales is not the driving factor at the moment.

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

Curious to know what the Jags current stadium deal looks like.

 

I know the Bucs stadium deal goes through like 2025 or 2030, or something like that, which would prevent any potential move until then.

 

For the record, I don't want ANY team to relocate and even more so despise the idea of a team moving to fucking London...or any other country...

 

Fuck that entire idea. Seriously the worst idea by Goodell and his cronies.

 

Jags stadium deal is until 2027 as well. Don't tell Jason La Confora that though. Or about the multi-million dollar largest scoreboard/jumbotron in the NFL set to begin construction at EverBank Field in Jacksonville. Because that's totally what owners looking to move to London do.

 

I agree though, don't want to see any team move to London. That goes for the Bucs, Phins, Rams, Chargers, Raiders, etc.

 

I honestly don't even like the fact that the Jags are playing two/three games over there. Khan is just going to alienate his fanbase that he had worked so hard into gaining their trust.

 

They're playing one game per year — for the next four years. There was an initial backlash by a minority of Jags fans, it's blown over though with his recent Front Office moves, the spike in ticket sales due to his (and Mark Lamping's) smart business acumen, stadium renovations with more to come etc. It has strengthened his standing with Jags fans. Save for a tiny minority of closet racists, he's actually beloved by Jags fans.

 

This. People need to realize this every time they mention the Bucs moving, the Glazers cashed in on people paying for RayJay with tax money and this was part of the deal. Also, the Glazers have publicly now stated they have no interest in sacrificing home games to play in London anymore. Meanwhile, the Jags are possibly going to play there twice a year. Not saying either of them move, and I hope nobody moves to London, fuck that. But ticket sales is not the driving factor at the moment.

 

Yeah I don't think the Glazers could pull out after their success in getting tax payers to pony up for Raymond James (how they did when they're having a tough time selling tickets is surprising.)

 

Also, you must be going off that clown Bart Hubbuch's (of the New York lolPost) report. Because he's the one speculating the Jags would play there twice a year, then the typical fellow hacks followed his report since journalists are all glorified bloggers now. He took Goodell saying they wanted to play three games in London and possibly asking the Jags to play two or just have three separate teams as the Jags definitely playing two games a year. He actually originally said two home games, then was humbled as everyone tore into him and he relegated himself to saying a home and an away game. But none of this is likely to happen. The Jags publicly have said they only want to play there once a year. Privately through team sources it's said Khan and the Jags would turn down any request by Goodell to play two games. So saying "probably" is a giant reach on Hubbuch and your part for parroting him, Milla.

 

To begin with there are general problems with moving any team to London. There are legal issues surrounding labor, as most of the NFL's restrictions on labor like the draft, restricted free agency, trades, the waiver wire and the franchise tag would likely be illegal under Europes labor laws. Soccer has been forced to change its rules on multiple occasions, most recently under the "Webster Ruling". The NFL might be able to circumvent some of that by basing a teams facilities and operations in the U.S, while playing games in London. Then other issues would arise too: Most UK NFL fans are of the opinion that an NFL team in London will fail to create a dedicated fan base, while the NFL so far has only played one London game per year instead of the eight games a normal franchise would play. I just don't see this happening! DAMN YOU GOODELL! Do you have to ruin everything?

 

Agreed. Not to mention the tax issues. Any player living in London or getting paid by a team based in London would make significantly less than the rest of the players. The UK is highly taxed. So for a player to be getting paid in Florida where there's no state income tax, to getting paid in the UK, he'd see his pockets thin immensely. High valueled Free Agents would steer clear of London without a doubt.

[Milla4Prez63 678]

Yeah I don't think the Glazers could pull out after their success in getting tax payers to pony up for Raymond James (how they did when they're having a tough time selling tickets is surprising.)

 

This was before ticket sale problems though. The Bucs used to have a season ticket waiting list in the late 90s and early 2000s. Ticket sales didn't become a problem again until the end of the Gruden regime/hiring of Raheem.

[the Lions fan 19]

It would be interesting to see what that much jet lag does to a group of athletes though...

 

Its a stupid idea but that hasn't stopped him before.

[Shotgun 442]

It's been mentioned several times in other threads regarding the Bucs moving to London or LA, but they do have a stadium contract so anymore talk of the Bucs moving should be ignored for another 15 years.

 

Aside for that, having a team in London is rather unrealistic and puts that team at a great disadvantage when traveling away. Not to mention a lot of the best free agents would be unlikely willing to move to another country so long as they have a good offer elsewhere.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Shotgun

[Crash 105]

Idk why they want to relocate a team when they could just start a expansion team there. Eventually this will be a 40 team league with 5 teams in each division.

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

Idk why they want to relocate a team when they could just start a expansion team there. Eventually this will be a 40 team league with 5 teams in each division.

 

Gonna be a lot of terrible watered down teams then.

 

This was before ticket sale problems though. The Bucs used to have a season ticket waiting list in the late 90s and early 2000s. Ticket sales didn't become a problem again until the end of the Gruden regime/hiring of Raheem.

 

Yeah I knew they did well ticket sales wise back then and have only struggled the past few years. But didn't think the Glazers got the tax money for the stadium back then and not recently, I stand corrected on that then

 

It's been mentioned several times in other threads regarding the Bucs moving to London or LA, but they do have a stadium contract so anymore talk of the Bucs moving should be ignored for another 15 years.

 

Agreed. Same goes for the Jags, stadium lease until 2027 — and to get out of it the Jags would have to open up their books. No NFL team is going to do that (because they'll have to show 3 straight years of deficit, and this is the NFL, where no team has a deficit, every team profits, and it'll show just how big a profit they're making — which might turn off lots of poorer fans.)

 

London just doesn't make sense anytime "soon" as La Confora said. The only teams immediately threatened are the teams with stadium issues like the Chargers and Rams. But I believe the Rams recently have something up for vote which might get their stadium problems handled. Chargers remain the most likely team to move somewhere due to their stadium issues. Remember, no team has ever moved due to ticket sales, or attendance, or anything of that sort. It's ALWAYS been about the stadium. For Chargers fans sake, I hope San Diego gets their shit together. I lived there for over a year when that team was flying high and the city was all in. They lost to the Jets after being a huge favorite and it seemed like the entire city turned on them, jerseys being set on fire, outrage all over the news. I've never seen anything like it. But hey, that's passion at least, they were just angry. I'll never wish relocation on any team, so hopefully they figure something out too, fuck Goodell.

Edited June 7, 2013 by CampinWithGoatSampson

[NaTaS+ 958]

I posted that in another thread and will repost it in any thread regarding putting a team in London, moving a team to London would fail, it might be fun for the first couple years, but eventually it will fail, the logistics just make it a nightmare

 

Yeah, agreed 100%. This thread is a little different, instead of directly talking about moving team A to London or LA all the time, Prisco is saying why not Team B or C. Everyone looks at the Jags and sees low attendance, but this article shows they have better turn out than the Dolphins or Bucs.

 

London would be a shit show unless they had their own 32 team in Europe then we could fly our champions to take on their campions. USA would be world champions all the time .

[housemd 338]

London is a big city and there is a decent amount of football fans there but I see moving a team there as a big fail. People in Europe don't give a crap about football (well at least 98%). London Whatevers would just be an idiotic move.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Probably a terrible idea, so don't all shoot me at once but... We have a stadium opening up Cali, and the NFL wants a team in the England... Why not just make two more teams?

 

I just officially woke up about an hour and a half ago so this is like, my random thought of the day.

[housemd 338]

Also if they are going to move a team to England/make a new team in England,then Goodell should just rename the league to International Football League.

[oochymp 2,393]

Yeah, agreed 100%. This thread is a little different, instead of directly talking about moving team A to London or LA all the time, Prisco is saying why not Team B or C. Everyone looks at the Jags and sees low attendance, but this article shows they have better turn out than the Dolphins or Bucs.

 

London would be a shit show unless they had their own 32 team in Europe then we could fly our champions to take on their campions. USA would be world champions all the time .

fair enough, I didn't actually read the article, I generally ignore anything talking about moving a team to England

 

it would be awesome if there was actually a European league competitive enough to take on an NFL team, but we're at least a few decades away from that because of all it would take to develop talent even after interest in the sport is developed, it'd be pretty cool if there actually was some meaning to a claim of Super Bowl champs being World Champions

 

Probably a terrible idea, so don't all shoot me at once but... We have a stadium opening up Cali, and the NFL wants a team in the England... Why not just make two more teams?

 

I just officially woke up about an hour and a half ago so this is like, my random thought of the day.

still does nothing about the logistical (travel/timing) problems of having a team in London

[BucMad 9]

Nice article, usually we hear this once a year anyway. And typical Pete Prisco..hating on the Bucs franchise since whenever...trust me this ain't happening! EVER! Being a Bay Area native and knowing the team’s history and how it’s rooted in the Tampa Bay area...nah, never happen! I believe the Glazers even mentioned that they weren't interested in playing any more games in London.

Edited June 10, 2013 by BucMad