Correcting some misinformation on the Panthers

[Thanatos 2,847]

Yes, the subtitle is not a typo.

 

NFL.com has been crying about how the sky is falling for a solid month now.

 

Carolina's WR corps is, right now, better than it was at the start of the 2013 season. People talk about how we've lost weapons and how they don't understand what Gettleman is doing.

 

Let me lift the veil from your eyes.

 

WR corps at this point last year:

 

Steve Smith

Brandon LaFell

Ted Ginn JR

Domenik Hixon

Greg Olsen (TE)

 

WR corps at this point this year:

 

Kelvin Benjamin

Jerricho Cotchery

Jason Avant

Tavarres King

Marvin McNutt

Greg Olsen (TE)

Ed Dickson (TE)

 

Clearly, there has been a lot of shuffling around. But I am tired of hearing about how much worse we got at the WR position. First off, we were 29th in the league in passing last year. 29th. Yet we went 12-4 and won the South. Steve Smith was the #2 pass-catcher last year, Olsen was #1. We have two proven vets, who yes, are not more than #2 options, but they are there with three young guys to teach them and they will hopefully do just that. (The WR lineup- the actual WRs- is how I'd predict the depth chart to look at the beginning of the season).

 

Last year we had Brandon LaFail, who tipped more balls into opponent's arms than I have ever seen.

 

Ted Ginn was considered a bust before he came to us.

 

Domenik Hixon was a #3 veteran WR.

 

The only reliable option we knew we had going into 2013 was Smitty and Olsen. Let's not rewrite history and act like the Panthers WRs were this awesome bunch of dudes last year. None of them broke 800 yards.

 

The defensive front seven is still intact and has a great addition in Kony Ealy.

 

The secondary is once again a mish-mash of people that Gettleman got for cheap, kinda like last year when he got this guy named Mike Mitchell for 1 million dollars.

 

Charles Godfrey is back and he took a heck of a paycut to do so. We don't need world-beaters in the secondary when we have, (IMO ofc, but I do believe it to be true), the best front seven in the NFL. QBs should not have all that much time to throw.

 

The only real place we have regressed is at the tackle positions, and we are looking at a guy right now to fill that need, (and no, not referring to J'Marcus Webb). With the salary-cap hell we are in, Gettleman is doing a great job getting value out of whatever he can.

[RazorStar 4,025]

It's a shame Kelvin benjamin is dogeshit, otherwise I might agree with you.

[Vin+ 3,121]

I am all onboard the Tarvarres King train.

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

Don't even try....

 

Steve Smith was one of the best WR's of this past decade..and Gettleman decides to throw him away like he's a nobody. A veteran presence is essential in a WR corps, especially someone of Smith's knowledge of the game.

 

Benjamin is a large product out of FSU, he's not that great in terms of receiving, and if he's asked to take the #1 role he's going to be in a world of hurt with nobody to learn from.

 

Cotchery? Should be retired

 

Avant? A guy who has been productive, but by no means a receiver that should be relied upon

 

Greg Olsen is still your best receiving target.

 

I wouldn't say the Panthers Receiving corps are shit, I would just say they are not going to get any better than last year.

[GA_Eagle 595]

Avant can be relied upon as a role player only, poster who may or may not be ATL. I agree he's not a very good number 2, even, most likely. His best work was in the slot, and he has good hands. Started having some trouble with separation.

[oochymp 2,393]

Seems like your argument isn't "look at how good our wrs are" but rather "hey, our wrs were pretty shitty last year too" which might be true, but it still doesn't bode well for the panthers

[Thanatos 2,847]

Seems like your argument isn't "look at how good our wrs are" but rather "hey, our wrs were pretty shitty last year too" which might be true, but it still doesn't bode well for the panthers

That's the whole point. They were shit last year, and yet we went 12-4, but people seem to be saying the WRs are somehow worse than last year- which they are not- and thus the Panthers will suck.

 

The argument doesn't hold water.

[Thanatos 2,847]

Don't even try....

 

Steve Smith was one of the best WR's of this past decade..and Gettleman decides to throw him away like he's a nobody. A veteran presence is essential in a WR corps, especially someone of Smith's knowledge of the game.

 

Benjamin is a large product out of FSU, he's not that great in terms of receiving, and if he's asked to take the #1 role he's going to be in a world of hurt with nobody to learn from.

 

Cotchery? Should be retired

 

Avant? A guy who has been productive, but by no means a receiver that should be relied upon

 

Greg Olsen is still your best receiving target.

 

I wouldn't say the Panthers Receiving corps are shit, I would just say they are not going to get any better than last year.

Smith is the only decision so far that Gettleman has made that I disagree with. His reasoning for doing so, however, is logical, even though I might disagree with that.

 

Benjamin can learn from Proehl, for starters. Secondly, as I've explained, Panthers front office > any other front office in the league as far as evaluating first round picks go and certainly over the media and armchair scouts. We haven't missed in 15 years. Not saying its impossible, obviously, but everyone talking down on Benjamin, well, let's just ask how many of you were talking down about Newton as well?

 

Cotchery should be retired? lol. Man had more TDs last year than any WR on the Panthers.

 

 

It's a shame Kelvin benjamin is dogeshit, otherwise I might agree with you.

 

 

Panthers drafting ability > draftniks opinions.

 

 

 

2001: Dan Morgan- Pro Bowl and All-Pro

2002: Julius Peppers- DROY, 8 Pro Bowls, 6 All-Pros

2003: Jordan Gross- 3 Pro Bowls, 1 All-Pro

2004: Chris Gamble- Current franchise INT leader

2005: Thomas Davis- Came back from triple ACL tears on the same knee, currently playing at a high level.

2006: DeAngelo Williams- Second RB in the history of the NFL to have 1,000 carries with over a 5.0 YPC (at one point, he has declined the last two seasons), Pro Bowl and All-Pro selections

2007: Jon Beason- 3 Pro Bowls and 2 All-Pros

2008: Jonathan Stewart- Actually the better pure runner compared to D-Will.

2008: Jeff Otah- The only question mark. Injuries derailed what was shaping up to be a great career.

2011: Cam Newton- OROY, 2 time Pro Bowl selection, NFL single-season record for most rushing TDs in a season by a QB, along with far too many records to list here.

2012: Luke Kuechly- DROY, Pro Bowler, All-Pro

2013: Star Lotulelei- Had an awesome first year playing DT in the middle of the line.

2014: Kelvin Benjamin

Edited May 22, 2014 by Thanatos19

[RazorStar 4,025]

Kelvin benjamin should go back to the WNBA, >_>

 

And the reason the Panthers are gonna suck this year is because Jordan Gross retired and your replacement is Nate Chandler. May as well be Nate from the Play60 commercials.

[Thanatos 2,847]

Replacement is not Nate Chandler, for starters.

 

And Chandler is doing fantastic considering he was a D-lineman two years ago, lol.

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

 

Smith is the only decision so far that Gettleman has made that I disagree with. His reasoning for doing so, however, is logical, even though I might disagree with that.

 

Benjamin can learn from Proehl, for starters. Secondly, as I've explained, Panthers front office > any other front office in the league as far as evaluating first round picks go and certainly over the media and armchair scouts. We haven't missed in 15 years. Not saying its impossible, obviously, but everyone talking down on Benjamin, well, let's just ask how many of you were talking down about Newton as well?

 

Cotchery should be retired? lol. Man had more TDs last year than any WR on the Panthers.

 

 

Smith gave his all for the Panthers, every damn game even when hurt. Just look at the 49ers game. The logic behind throwing away one of the most consistent, tough, and reliable WR's in the league that has made your team's offense somewhat relevant for the past decade is ludicrous.

 

The Panthers may have had great choices in the 1st round, but, they are bound to miss one too. Benjamin to me, uses his body size, more than he actually uses his WR abilities. Not saying that's bad, because you gotta do what you gotta do, but if you do it that way...you are more prone to become a bust if you aren't relying on fundamentals in the NFL.

 

As far as Proehl, he's a solid WR coach, no doubt. What he did with Lafell is impressive. BUT. A coach can only do so much.

 

The vast majority of learning by rookies isn't necessarily how much tape, how much they practice...it's more so the actual in-game regular season experience that teaches them. Some learn the hard way, some don't learn at all, and some make it. I'm just saying if Steve Smith is on the field with Benjamin during the game..it makes the world of difference. That's just how I feel.

 

But I see what you're getting at here...I just am not buying it.

[Thanatos 2,847]

 

Smith gave his all for the Panthers, every damn game even when hurt. Just look at the 49ers game. The logic behind throwing away one of the most consistent, tough, and reliable WR's in the league that has made your team's offense somewhat relevant for the past decade is ludicrous.

 

The Panthers may have had great choices in the 1st round, but, they are bound to miss one too. Benjamin to me, uses his body size, more than he actually uses his WR abilities. Not saying that's bad, because you gotta do what you gotta do, but if you do it that way...you are more prone to become a bust if you aren't relying on fundamentals in the NFL.

 

As far as Proehl, he's a solid WR coach, no doubt. What he did with Lafell is impressive. BUT. A coach can only do so much.

 

The vast majority of learning by rookies isn't necessarily how much tape, how much they practice...it's more so the actual in-game regular season experience that teaches them. Some learn the hard way, some don't learn at all, and some make it. I'm just saying if Steve Smith is on the field with Benjamin during the game..it makes the world of difference. That's just how I feel.

 

But I see what you're getting at here...I just am not buying it.

That I completely agree with. He did give his all, every game, and the way Gettleman treated him was despicable. But his logic for doing so was that Cam felt undue pressure to throw to Smitty. He felt that Smith was stunting Cam's growth, and that if he left Smith in there for two more years, which is how long Smith wanted to play, he might permanently hamper Cam's development as a QB.

 

Who are you going to choose to do what is best for in that situation, if that's the way you feel- your star WR who has two years left in him, at best, or your up and coming QB who is the future of your franchise?

 

I disagree with his reasoning, as I don't think that was the case. But I understand the logic behind it.

[Thanatos 2,847]

Kelvin Benjamin impresses during Panthers minicamp:

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000351253/article/kelvin-benjamin-impresses-at-panthers-rookie-camp

 

#CalvinBenjamin

[SteVo+ 3,702]

#CalvinBenjamin

 

[panthergf 31]

As much as it hurt to see Smith go and the way it went down so close to the end of his career. I also understand the reasoning behind it. Most NFL players don't end there careers the way we all would hope them to including our favorite players thanks to decisions made one way or another.

 

Then thing is how many WR's have you seen actually develop into decent starters while Smitty has been the #1 in all the years he was here under his veteran leadership. Can we blame that all on Smitty no, but we were going to have to move on without Smitty there to groom these guys at this rate anyways, and if they feel Smitty may have been hurting the young WR's growth or chances into developing I get it, I don't agree with it but I get it.

 

As far as Benjamin goes I really like the pick and like him as a WR, sure he is raw but our coaching staff has worked well with very young talent over the last few seasons.Could he be a bust sure every pick early has that potential. We could take a step back the way the roster has been pieced together thanks to our cap and draft picks sure it has that potential but we could also surprise as well. We are returning most of the players from the #2 defense in the league with the addition of 3 young guys to that side of the ball so I wouldn't just write us off.

 

Right now from an outsiders perspective our WR group looks bandaged together but it only take one or two of the young guys to change that. If there as high on King & McNutt as they claim I wouldn't be surprised to see one step up after having a season in the system. King played opposite of AJ Green for a couple of season's in Georgia then after AJ left had a pretty solid year. I am keeping my eye on King, then there are a couple of the UDFA I am also watching that could get shots given the status of our WR group that had solid college careers should they make the final 53.

 

Cory "Philly" Brown might be a nice addition he is smaller but could be a nice slot guy, Marcus Lucas is raw and needs developed but he brings the size like Benjamin to the group. Our WR group has been in shambles for years only relying on Smitty to carry the load, so in the end I am sad about Smitty but we were going to have to face a year without him soon it just came sooner then expected and some players are going to have there opportunities to step up hopefully that happens.

Edited May 19, 2014 by panthergf

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Ya... And there are reports of UDFA WRs in Packers camp making sideline grabs over two defenders.

#CalvinNoName

[Thanatos 2,847]

Ya... And there are reports of UDFA WRs in Packers camp making sideline grabs over two defenders.

 

#CalvinNoName

(No one tell Rivera the problem might be with the defenders. Shhh.)

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

(Shhh. Nobody tell Thanatos that stories out of camp pertaining to rookies are almost always positive.)

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Ziggy Hood was the best player in Steelers training camp for two years, yet he's probably the worst 3-4 DE in the league. Benjamin lighting it up in shorts in May equates to nothing.

 

Their WR corps sucked last year and looks worse now.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Zack_of_Steel

[Bucman 891]

Kelvin Benjamin impressing against a bunch of scrubs is not that impressive. A first rounder like him should be tearing it up in Rookie Minicamp.

[AL_Royalty 489]

Yeah, Jon Baldwin made circus catches all offseason his first two years in the NFL, and that was in actual camp. He's now buried somewhere on the depth chart, I believe. I'm not saying that Benjamin will be a bust or anything, but I've learned not to believe the hype that comes out of camp, especially regarding pass catchers. He's probably not even wearing pads yet.

[BwareDWare94 723]

Man, I dig your optimism but that WR list makes every WR depth chart Tom Brady's ever had look golden.

I mean, Avant and Cotchery? Did a time machine take us back to 5 years, and even then, neither was ever more than a marginally good receiver.

 

One way or another, there's a next step available to the Panthers, and their FO's seeming inability to provide their quarterback with some legitimate weapons is going to get in the way of that.

 

There were options out there. I don't understand their unwillingness to shell out some cash before guys like Nicks and Britt were gone.

Why weren't they the ones to snag Stevie at such a ridiculously low price? It makes no sense.

 

The Saints are better. The Bucs are better. The Falcons will at least show improvement.

 

I just don't see this panning out for Carolina.

[Milla4Prez63 678]

To be fair, Carolina has been cap strapped a bit and the franchise tag money they are paying Hardy doesn't help. They couldn't afford to really get more than what they got in FA.

As for their WR corps, it isn't the doom and gloom it was when they originally cut Smith, but we all knew they'd address it somehow. I think it's a weak group of guys but it isn't bad enough to drag them down if their defense is as good as last year and Cam can make plays. They'll be a tough team, as good as last year? I don't know, it may be hard to replicate that success in a tough division and conference, but there is no need for Carolina fans to go jumping off buildings....unless they want to.

[Thanatos 2,847]

We. Had. No. Cash.

 

I'm not sure what is hard to understand here. We had very little cash and we needed to fill a lot more holes than just receivers.

 

People said the same thing about Hixon and Ginn last year. They said Smith was old and over the hill.

 

I'm just pointing out that at the START of 2013, people said the Panthers WR corps was shit- and the Panthers went 12-4. Just because we don't have the greatest of WR corps again, doesn't mean we're going to be shit. That logic doesn't fly. The defense is intact. Cam is still here. The Panthers are a legit threat to repeat as NFCS champs for the first time ever. And people dismissing us before the season even starts because of a WR corps that is, IMO, marginally better, and at worst, marginally worse than the year before, is flat out hilarious.

[RazorStar 4,025]

As it was plainly stated prior to this, the reason the Panthers will suck this year is because their offensive line is made out of swiss cheese and old underwear. Not because their top WR belongs in the WNBA.