NFL Investigates Saints RE: Their "Bounty System"

[Thanatos 2,847]

We can prove players are involved when Vilma offered 10k to anyone who would knock out Brett Favre back in 2009 before the NFCC, and NOT A SINGLE ONE bothered to report it to anyone.

 

Knowledge of what was going on and failure to do anything about it is an offense as well, in my book. Chris, I suggest you look more into what we actually know took place, because right now, you're looking like a fool, bud.

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

We can prove players are involved when Vilma offered 10k to anyone who would knock out Brett Favre back in 2009 before the NFCC, and NOT A SINGLE ONE bothered to report it to anyone.

 

Knowledge of what was going on and failure to do anything about it is an offense as well, in my book. Chris, I suggest you look more into what we actually know took place, because right now, you're looking like a fool, bud.

 

Yes, players are involved. No shit. But you aren't going to prove WHO when no one is going to snitch, no reliable sources. You guys work like ESPN reporters in this thread, picking between the lines lol. Read again:

 

You just disagreed with everything I said, then in the next two paragraphs said the same thing I have been saying all along! You aren't going to what prove players are involved unless they admit it. There weren't illegal hits, just hard hits. What, are you going to believe Greg Williams if he says "so and so was involved in this"? How do you know he's not lying? Considering this entire bounty system with players getting paid is pretty much founded on lying. I see a guy that while I disagree with a lifetime ban, could possibly get that. And I see a guy who would probably do next to anything and throw anyone under the bus to save his job.

 

Stop reading between the lines. Take my posts for EXACTLY what they say.

 

And once again, that's like a guilty party not admitting what they did, getting information from an unreliable SOURCE and saying the guys guilty. It doesn't work like that.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Chris D

[Eefluxx 113]

We can prove players are involved when Vilma offered 10k to anyone who would knock out Brett Favre back in 2009 before the NFCC, and NOT A SINGLE ONE bothered to report it to anyone. Knowledge of what was going on and failure to do anything about it is an offense as well, in my book. Chris, I suggest you look more into what we actually know took place, because right now, you're looking like a fool, bud.

 

Actually we can't prove that he did that. I mean I know Adam Schefter said Vilma did that but even he has changed it to alledgly (sp?) doing that after Darren Sharper went on air and said that never happened and he was in the locker and asked Schefter if he was in there too.

 

@ChrisD..... Dare I say this to a Falcons fan, but I do appreciate you sticking up for the Saints in some way but it all boils down to malicious intent compared to hard hits. It's one thing to say I want you to take the QB or certain player out and another to say I want to see him carted off the field and his career ended. And on top of it all being told to stop by the league and lying about it and covering it up.

 

Granted alot of the hits being shown are legal hits which makes me wonder where the malicious intent was (granted a hard hit can be malicious) and if the ledgers and 50000 pages (which I find hard to believe in just a 3 year span) actually say this is what you get if the player gets taken off on a cart and this is what you get if you end his career and so on and so forth.

 

The fact that most teams have admitted to having a "bounty" system (and I use the word bounty loosely) is not the really revelant issue as is the intent to personally end a guys career and trying to cover it up after you have been told to stop.

 

If you want to argue something then how about the fact that Giants players admitted to targeting Williams in the NFC championship because they knew he had concussion problems and were trying to knock him out of the game and nothing being said about that.

[Jayrus 51]

@ChrisD : You're right that proving exactly which players are/were involved in the Saints bounty program is going to be a sticky business. Beyond a flat confession you'd need some kind of record, and it would be insanely stupid for the Saints to keep records of who was participating in this thing. So we're left to wonder exactly what evidence the league is making this investigation off of.Obviously they have something convincing enough that they're taking action. I guess we'll find out what it is after they're ready to dole out punishments.

 

Also, I see you continually repeating that payoffs like this are common and widespread in the league. Yes, obviously they are. I'm not going to dispute that. However, just because somehting is widespread and has been going on for a long time doesn't make it right, and it also doesn't mean we shouldn't fight it.

 

Goodell and the League have been making endless noise the last couple years about player safety, so of course they're all over the Saints' asses for this. you are right though, that they should pick a side and stay on it. I agree with the League that should do what it can to ensure the risk of permanant injury to players is minimalized. Programs like this should be punished. they already HAVE rules against bounty hunting, so anyone taking part in a bounty program is wilfully violating the rules already.

 

Point is that even Football should have a certain degree of respect and sportsmanship. Is it really wrong to fight these players and coaches who think they don't have to give a shit about the players they're lighting up? Or do you think we should just allow this to continue just because it's "been going on forever"? Who cares how many careers you end as long as the hits were legal and your team wins a Superbowl, right?

Edited March 8, 2012 by Jayrus

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

In the week since the NFL revealed the New Orleans Saints' three-year bounty program for knocking out opposing players, the 2009 NFC Championship Game has received the vast amount of attention. The beating Minnesota Vikings quarterback Brett Favre absorbed from the Saints has rightfully drawn great scrutiny, but we're learning that Favre is not the only NFC North quarterback who might have been a target of the program.

 

Jeff Duncan of the New Orleans Times-Picayune reports that NFL investigators reviewed an e-mail sent to Saints coach Sean Payton from marketing agent Mike Ornstein in which Ornstein pledged money for a "knockout blow" against Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers in the teams' 2011 season-opening game at Lambeau Field. The Packers won the game 42-34.

 

A source told Duncan that Orenstein's e-mail was made in jest, and Payton told investigators that he didn't read the e-mail. We're still learning the scope and methods of this program, so take those claims for what you will.

 

DIE SAINTS DIE

[westbrookforsix 28]

They should just terminate the coaching staff's contracts and make them go find jobs in the NCAA.

 

Goodell is taking a strong stance against everything else, if he lets the coaches get away with a slap on the wrist for this, it's a bad precedent.

 

I know it's harsh and extreme, but so is paying your players money to intentionally injure someone, and escalating the bounty depending on the level of injury... that second part is the most messed up part IMO. It's not just about getting them off the field for the game to give the Saints an edge, but ending their season, or possibly career.

 

Make an example out of these coaches. The only way to really scare coaches away from bounties in the future is to take their jobs.

 

EDIT: After reading more, seeing that Williams has done this on two other teams... he absolutely should get a lifetime ban. This was also under Payton's eye, and he apparently knew about it, so the lightest punishment would be forfeitting 2 first round picks... and the harshest punishment they should give is to JoePa him, since he knew about it and didn't stop it.

Edited March 9, 2012 by westbrookforsix

[Guest QB Killa]

Roger Goodell... finishing what Katrina started

 

(I kid) /bad joke

[BigBen07 285]

They should just terminate the coaching staff's contracts and make them go find jobs in the NCAA.

 

Goodell is taking a strong stance against everything else, if he lets the coaches get away with a slap on the wrist for this, it's a bad precedent.

 

I know it's harsh and extreme, but so is paying your players money to intentionally injure someone, and escalating the bounty depending on the level of injury... that second part is the most messed up part IMO. It's not just about getting them off the field for the game to give the Saints an edge, but ending their season, or possibly career.

 

Make an example out of these coaches. The only way to really scare coaches away from bounties in the future is to take their jobs.

 

EDIT: After reading more, seeing that Williams has done this on two other teams... he absolutely should get a lifetime ban. This was also under Payton's eye, and he apparently knew about it, so the lightest punishment would be forfeitting 2 first round picks... and the harshest punishment they should give is to JoePa him, since he knew about it and didn't stop it.

 

I agree fully. In fact, I was going to post that exact same thing. Would it be too harsh if the Saints were also banned from this year's NFL Draft instead of losing draft picks?

Edited March 24, 2012 by BigBen07

[BucD+ 648]

Released audio of Gregg Williams talking to his players in a defensive meeting before the playoff game against the 49ers...

 

 

Holy shit.

 

Also, just coincidence that this was released before the appeals being heard today by Goodell?? I think not...

 

[AllYouNeedIsLovie 377]

Wow, disgusting. Williams will never be allowed back in the league.

 

And Sean Payton had the nerve to appeal this suspension. We all know he heard speeches like this year. What a fucking tool. I hope Goodell extends his suspension.

[SteVo+ 3,702]

Wow...Gregg Williams should never be allowed to coach in the NFL again.

[BucD+ 648]

@nfldraftupdate:

Per reports, the "Gregg Williams audio" was two-weeks after the league had warned the #Saints regarding bounty situation. Horrid timing...

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

This is something the NFL already had. So it was already taken into account in the original findings. The fact that the media has just got hold of it and released it shouldn't change anything.

[Jayrus 51]

For weeks all I've heard is excuses about how "There's no proof" and "This goes on all over the league". I hope now all those people making excuses for the Saints feel like morons. They deserved everything they got and more. This appeal is doomed. There's no way Goodell will reduce any part of his punishment, especially if he already had this recording along with god knows what other evidence. Not to mention THEIR CONFESSION. Williams can kiss any hope of coaching in the NFL ever again goodbye now.

[BigBen07 285]

Totally fucking disgusting. Congrats Gregg, you just bought yourself a one-way ticket out of ANY coaching job in football, let alone the NFL. No one is gonna even mention you as a candidate.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

For the record... Gregg didn't even appeal his suspension. Maybe the first good thing he has done since this news broke.

 

The Saints Org. is just a giant tool shed, and leading the way is Sean Payton. The guy is innovative and one of the more brilliant minds in the league today... And now I am hoping it all crumbles in front of him.

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

I respect every team in the NFL including the Eagles...but the Saints as a whole are dirty, cheating bastards that deserve to be kicked out of this league. The fact that I have to watch this circus team play against my Falcons TWICE disgusts me. Hope every player involved snaps both their ACL's.

[Milla4Prez63 678]

For the record... Gregg didn't even appeal his suspension. Maybe the first good thing he has done since this news broke.

 

The Saints Org. is just a giant tool shed, and leading the way is Sean Payton. The guy is innovative and one of the more brilliant minds in the league today... And now I am hoping it all crumbles in front of him.

 

They are only appealing to buy time. Payton should've started his suspension last Sunday but now he gets extra time to get things set up for his absence and give Parcells more time to decide. They know nothing is getting reduced.

[AllYouNeedIsLovie 377]

The Saints Org. is just a giant tool shed, and leading the way is Sean Payton. The guy is innovative and one of the more brilliant minds in the league today... And now I am hoping it all crumbles in front of him.

One of the biggest douches in the league and I've hated him for a while now. Almost makes me happy that the Bucs were the ones that made him tore his ACL or whatever the hell it was. Karma is a bitch.

[Bay 2,003]

Beating the Saints made this so much sweeter for 49er fans.

 

Choke on a dick, Greg Williams.

[KiLaSix9+ 398]

I just heard the audio for the first time today. Pretty disturbing to think that was going on through out his tenure as d-coordinator of these teams.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

What's more disturbing is that Tim Hasselbeck was almost defending this speech. I say almost because he didn't agree with what was said but was basically going on about how this happens all the time.

 

Josh Sitton (RG for the Packers) was asked if speeches like Greggs have ever occurred and it was an absolute "No".

 

Now... I know teams will target guys on the injury report and such. And even though that is kinda fishy, this is 100x worse.

 

Michael Crabtree is a prima donna so let's tear his ACL?! When Frank Gore is at the bottom of the pile, every single player needs to hit him in the head before leaving the pile?!

 

I know NFL locker rooms aren't decorated in pink and strewn with lilies, but it's really hard to believe that speeches like that are the norm in the NFL.

[JetsFan4Life 542]

What's more disturbing is that Tim Hasselbeck was almost defending this speech. I say almost because he didn't agree with what was said but was basically going on about how this happens all the time.

 

Josh Sitton (RG for the Packers) was asked if speeches like Greggs have ever occurred and it was an absolute "No".

 

Now... I know teams will target guys on the injury report and such. And even though that is kinda fishy, this is 100x worse.

 

Michael Crabtree is a prima donna so let's tear his ACL?! When Frank Gore is at the bottom of the pile, every single player needs to hit him in the head before leaving the pile?!

 

I know NFL locker rooms aren't decorated in pink and strewn with lilies, but it's really hard to believe that speeches like that are the norm in the NFL.

 

I saw Chad Ochocinco earlier mention he heard worse stuff in Pop Warner Football in Miami. Now that's Ochocinco so could just be crazy talk but honestly it wouldn't surprise me if stuff like this was said often (doesn't make it right of course).

 

I mean how many times do we say (as fans) "Take his fucking head off," "Kill him" etc. I know I've said obviously not meaning it but having it just come out of my mouth. Obviously there's a huge difference between me the fan and Gregg Williams the coach and a leader. But let's not act like this mentality is strange as I've seen almost everyone on here say stuff like that before and in a game like football in the heat of the moment I'm sure stuff like that comes out.

 

When it all comes down to it non of us have been or ever really will be in a NFL locker room so we can't really say what's normal talk and what really is crazy.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Sounds a lot like my high school coach... And I loved my high school coach.

 

He deserves a second chance once he serves his suspension.

[Thanatos 2,847]

I saw Chad Ochocinco earlier mention he heard worse stuff in Pop Warner Football in Miami. Now that's Ochocinco so could just be crazy talk but honestly it wouldn't surprise me if stuff like this was said often (doesn't make it right of course).

 

I mean how many times do we say (as fans) "Take his fucking head off," "Kill him" etc. I know I've said obviously not meaning it but having it just come out of my mouth. Obviously there's a huge difference between me the fan and Gregg Williams the coach and a leader. But let's not act like this mentality is strange as I've seen almost everyone on here say stuff like that before and in a game like football in the heat of the moment I'm sure stuff like that comes out.

 

When it all comes down to it non of us have been or ever really will be in a NFL locker room so we can't really say what's normal talk and what really is crazy.

 

No. Just no.

 

Talking about taking his head off, hitting him under the chin, etc., yes- that *could* be ascribed to just normal, crazy, pump your team up, talk.

 

Saying to target the guy's ACL? No. That is way over the line, and shows that he wanted his team to *hurt* the Niners. Williams should be banned for life, and if Payton was in the room when this was going on, so should he.