DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241 Posted March 21, 2013 I define them as QBs capable of realistically leading you to a championship without an extraordinary group of guys around him. AFC East 1. New England: Yes. 2. Miami: Maybe, too early to tell. 3. Buffalo: No. 4. Jets: No. AFC North Baltimore: Yes. Debatable. Cincinnati: No. Pittsburgh: Yes. Cleveland: Too early to tell, leaning towards no. AFC South Houston: No. Indy: Maybe. Leaning towards yes, but too early. Tennessee: Don't know. Leaning toward no. Too early to tell either way. Jacksonville: No. AFC West Denver: Yes, but for how long? San Diego: Yes. Debatable. KC: No. Oakland: No. NFC East Washington: Maybe. Leaning towards yes depending on health. Giants: Yes. Cowboys: No. Debatable. Eagles: No. NFC North Packers: Yes Vikings: No Lions: Maybe, leaning toward yes depending on health. Bears: No. NFC South Falcons: Yes. Debatable. Saints: Yes Bucs: Maybe, leaning towards no, too inconsistent to tell at this point. Panthers: Yes NFC West 49ers: Don't know yet Seahawks: ^ Rams: Not at this point Cardinals: No. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SteVo+ 3,702 Posted March 21, 2013 I think you nailed it, DMac. This will inevitably spark a debate about Joe Flacco, Tony Romo, Matt Ryan, etc., but based on your definition of a franchise QB as a guy "capable of realistically leading you to a championship without an extraordinary group of guys around him," I agree with your picks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Milla4Prez63 678 Posted March 21, 2013 It depends on your definition of a franchise QB, by my definition I'd narrow that list down big time to like just Green Bay, Denver, New England, etc. But by what you seem to go off, your list looks good. My only disagreement is a firm no for Andy Dalton but you are on the fence for some QBs like Weeden, Freeman, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CARDINAL 205 Posted March 21, 2013 I define them as QBs capable of realistically leading you to a championship without an extraordinary group of guys around him. AFC East 1. New England: Yes. 2. Miami: Maybe, too early to tell. 3. Buffalo: No. 4. Jets: No. AFC North Baltimore: Yes. Debatable. Cincinnati: No. Pittsburgh: Yes. Cleveland: Too early to tell, leaning towards no. AFC South Houston: No. Indy: Maybe. Leaning towards yes, but too early. Tennessee: Don't know. Leaning toward no. Too early to tell either way. Jacksonville: No. AFC West Denver: Yes, but for how long? San Diego: Yes. Debatable. KC: No. Oakland: No. NFC East Washington: Maybe. Leaning towards yes depending on health. Giants: Yes. Cowboys: No. Debatable. Eagles: No. NFC North Packers: Yes Vikings: No Lions: Maybe, leaning toward yes depending on health. Bears: No. NFC South Falcons: Yes. Debatable. Saints: Yes Bucs: Maybe, leaning towards no, too inconsistent to tell at this point. Panthers: Yes NFC West 49ers: Don't know yet Seahawks: ^ Rams: Not at this point Cardinals: No. Joel, why did you put Baltimore down as "Yes-Debatable", when Flacco just lead the Ravens to the Super Bowl and was a big reason why they won it last season? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted March 21, 2013 If they can win you a super bowl, They're a franchise QB IMO. So Denver doesn't have a franchise QB. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CARDINAL 205 Posted March 21, 2013 If they can win you a super bowl, They're a franchise QB IMO. So Denver doesn't have a franchise QB. Has Peyton Manning not won a Super Bowl before? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted March 21, 2013 If I threw 3 TD's and 7 INTs on my super bowl run, i'd be pretty damn happy, but I wouldn't be a franchise QB. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bay 2,003 Posted March 21, 2013 And if Manning lost to Grossman... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Omerta+ 1,206 Posted March 21, 2013 Not sure how Flacco is debatable by the criteria. He DID lead a franchise to the SB without an extraordinary group. The only top 10 player he had at any skill position was Ray Rice, who per the usual disappeared in the playoffs. The only other guy who is top 10 at his position is Marshall Yanda. Looking at the rest of the teams, Flacco had less to work with than any AFC team except MAYBE the colts to be honest. And lets not get started on his defense. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FartWaffles 1,857 Posted March 21, 2013 My definition of a franchise quarterback is stricter than most. Aaron Rodgers Tom Brady Drew Brees Ben Roethlisberger Peyton Manning That's it. There are some guys with potential to be there... Andrew Luck Robert Griffin III Russell Wilson Joe Flacco Matt Ryan Cam Newton Matt Stafford Colin Kaepernick The rest are either game managers or talented quarterbacks that for whatever reason just haven't reached their full potential or at least what they could be capable of. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BwareDWare94 723 Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) How many "extraordinary" teams are there, really, in this Super Bowl era? I look back to the Rams and Ravens Super Bowl victories from the turn of the millenium, in which case one team had an extraordinary offense and the other an extraordinary defense. Rarely do we see teams that are downright excellent on both sides of the ball. The most solid O and D team to last win a Super Bowl would probably be the Steelers team that beat Arizona. Otherwise, it took incredible individual runs that carried teams. Edited March 21, 2013 by BwareDWare94 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241 Posted March 22, 2013 How many "extraordinary" teams are there, really, in this Super Bowl era? I look back to the Rams and Ravens Super Bowl victories from the turn of the millenium, in which case one team had an extraordinary offense and the other an extraordinary defense. Rarely do we see teams that are downright excellent on both sides of the ball. The most solid O and D team to last win a Super Bowl would probably be the Steelers team that beat Arizona. Otherwise, it took incredible individual runs that carried teams. I'll admit extraordinary is an exaggeration. But having a team around you that isn't the most talented, and still coming up big is more what I was referring to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted March 22, 2013 I'd say a franchise qb is one that you can say "barring something out of the ordinary, I know that we long as I have him I will be a solid contender." 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch 874 Posted March 22, 2013 How in the world is Joe Flacco being a franchise QB debatable? You are confusing franchise QB with "elite" QB. You don't have to be an "elite" QB to be a franchise QB. That's just ridiculous. He made all the plays he needed to make to help his team win the superbowl. Granted, his WRs went ape shit, he went 11tds-0ints and made the plays. Can't ask for more then that from your QB. So if Flacco is your QB, just performed the way he did in the play offs, won the superbowl, on his contract year, you're telling me that he isn't your franchise QB? C'mon now. Obviously you can win with this guy and he's far from a Trent Dilfer comparison who was clearly horrible and got carried by his defense. I wouldn't have paid Flacco as much as but he'd definitely be our guy. He's not elite but after putting up the play off performance he just did, won the superbowl, he's definitely a franchise QB that you build around. Debatable... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sarge+ 3,436 Posted March 22, 2013 (edited) AFC East 1. New England: Yes. 2. Miami: Flip a coin. Could really go either way IMO. 3. Buffalo: No. 4. Jets: No. AFC North Baltimore: Yes. Cincinnati: No. AJ Green has carried him from day 1. Pittsburgh: Yes. Cleveland: No. AFC South Houston: Yes. Indy: More than likely. Tennessee: No. Jacksonville: No. AFC West Denver: Yes. San Diego: I feel like he's regressing, so no. KC: Flip another coin. I'd lean towards yes. Oakland: No. NFC East Washington: Based on talent, yes. Can he stay healthy? Giants: Yes. Cowboys: Yes. Eagles: No. NFC North Packers: Yes. Vikings: No. Lions: I feel like Megatron carries him, so no. Bears: No. NFC South Falcons: Yes. Saints: Yes. Bucs: No. Panthers: Yes. Not a good team around him at all. NFC West 49ers: Too early to tell, but probably. Seahawks: ^ Rams: Bradford kinda sucks. Cardinals: lol. Edited March 22, 2013 by Sarge Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025 Posted March 22, 2013 Wait... Blake Gabberd isn't a franchise QB guise? wh....wha.....what!? *heart breaks into a gillion pieces* 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted March 22, 2013 My decisions. AFC East 1. New England: Yes. 2. Miami: No 3. Buffalo: Yes. If Tavaris Jackson isn't a franchise qb, I don't know who is. 4. Jets: No. AFC North Baltimore: No Cincinnati: No. Pittsburgh: Yes. Cleveland: No. AFC South Houston: No Indy: Yes Tennessee: No. Jacksonville: No. AFC West Denver: Yes but not for long. San Diego: No KC: No Oakland: No. NFC East Washington: Yes Giants: No Cowboys: No Eagles: No. NFC North Packers: Yes. Vikings: No. Lions: No Bears: No. NFC South Falcons: Yes. Saints: Yes. Bucs: No. Panthers: Probably not, but still possible. NFC West 49ers: Yes Seahawks: Yes Rams: No Cardinals: No Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RANGA+ 1,210 Posted March 23, 2013 I think it really depends on how you define the term "franchise QB". For me, it boils down to a situation where the game is on the line. Who do you give the ball to and trust to make the decisions out there on the field to drive your team to victory? If you consistently place the fate of the game in your QBs hands, and he delivers more often than not, that ladies and gentleman, is a franchise QB. That's why players like Eli Manning and Flacco are franchise QBs, but someone like Rivers, who is technically a better passer, would not be. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos 2,847 Posted March 23, 2013 I think Blots is trolling with that post. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glanvilles Grits 142 Posted March 23, 2013 (edited) I define them as QBs capable of realistically leading you to a championship without an extraordinary group of guys around him. AFC East 1. New England: Yes. 2. Miami: Maybe, too early to tell. 3. Buffalo: No. 4. Jets: No. AFC North Baltimore: Yes. Debatable. Cincinnati: No. Pittsburgh: Yes. Cleveland: Too early to tell, leaning towards no. AFC South Houston: No. Indy: Maybe. Leaning towards yes, but too early. Tennessee: Don't know. Leaning toward no. Too early to tell either way. Jacksonville: No. AFC West Denver: Yes, but for how long? San Diego: Yes. Debatable. KC: No. Oakland: No. NFC East Washington: Maybe. Leaning towards yes depending on health. Giants: Yes. Cowboys: No. Debatable. Eagles: No. NFC North Packers: Yes Vikings: No Lions: Maybe, leaning toward yes depending on health. Bears: No. NFC South Falcons: Yes. Debatable. Saints: Yes Bucs: Maybe, leaning towards no, too inconsistent to tell at this point. Panthers: Yes NFC West 49ers: Don't know yet Seahawks: ^ Rams: Not at this point Cardinals: No. I'm sorry, I was totally agreeing with you (Even about Matt Ryan) until I saw Cam Newton. What has he proved? How can you have him as a YES, but Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan as a Debatable? That makes no sense. Cam Newton hasn't shown us anything spectacular aside from one season. Both those guys are light years ahead of Cam right now (Which is rightfully so being in the league longer). I'm just curious for your honest reasoning behind the yes for Newton. Especially when, while the team WAS horrible as a whole, he didn't elevate them at all this past season. And I'm not saying Newton ISNT a franchise QB. For me it's too early to tell and I would lean toward yes being how bad the team has been around him. But still, to have those two as debatable and Newton as an absolute yes, struck me weird. Edited March 23, 2013 by Rain Man Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted March 23, 2013 I think Blots is trolling with that post. Damn it, you caught me. Ok guys, confession time: I don't think Tavaris Jackson is a franchise qb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos 2,847 Posted March 23, 2013 (edited) Damn it, you caught me. Ok guys, confession time: I don't think Tavaris Jackson is a franchise qb lol. I meant other than that. Eli Manning and Joe Flacco aren't franchise QBs? RG3, Kaep, and Wilson are, but Cam is probably not? Edited March 23, 2013 by Thanatos19 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.AirMcNair. 1,232 Posted March 23, 2013 How many "extraordinary" teams are there, really, in this Super Bowl era? I look back to the Rams and Ravens Super Bowl victories from the turn of the millenium, in which case one team had an extraordinary offense and the other an extraordinary defense. Rarely do we see teams that are downright excellent on both sides of the ball. The most solid O and D team to last win a Super Bowl would probably be the Steelers team that beat Arizona. Otherwise, it took incredible individual runs that carried teams. You do know the Rams had the 6th ranked defense overall in 99, right? 4th best in points allowed per game. They had more than just their offense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted March 23, 2013 If they didn't have the greatest safety of all time Mike Jones, the Titans would have won. And if the Titans didn't exist the Jags would have won. Seriously they went undefeated that year except for one team, and they raped the 99 Dolphins. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blotsfan 2,112 Posted March 23, 2013 (edited) lol. I meant other than that. Eli Manning and Joe Flacco are franchise QBs? RG3, Kaep, and Wilson are, but Cam is probably not? I assume you meant to comment on how Flacco and Eli aren't and yes, I stand by that. I know Flacco has made the playoffs every year, but do you think thats because of him? I don't. He had a great run this year, but I don't get the vibe that thats something he will keep up regularly. Eli Manning is what I think Flacco will be like. Yeah he had those great super bowl runs where he made great plays, but how many franchise qbs in their prime missed the playoffs in 3 of 4 years? Manning has his moments, but he's not someone you can rely on. If a quarterba Kaepernick and Wilson established themselves as top level players in their first year of starting. I would be very surprised if they turn out to just be a flash in the pan (flashes in pans?) RG3 also had an amazing year just like those guys. Really, it was better. The only reason I had any hesitation calling him a franchise qb is because of his knee. If he recovers from that, he's gonna have a long, successful career. Newton my biggest question whether to say yes or no to and I decided no. What happened this season? The Panthers should've been in playoff contention. Instead they just crapped their way out of the gate before having a nice run against mostly bad teams. I don't care that Newton is young or that the Panthers don't have a ton of talent. Look at the three main rookie qbs this last year, most notably Luck. The colts were making a serious threat at 0-16 in 2011 and made the playoffs this year. The panthers had enough where they should've made the leap to competitiveness, but they didn't. Of course, Newton is young and for all I know he's on the verge of a great year this year where the Panthers do well. Until then though, I don't consider him a franchise qb. Edited March 23, 2013 by blotsfan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
