Let's Talk Peyton Manning

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Through Peyton's career in Indy he had amazing weapons. Collectively, his offenses fielded 29 Pro Bowlers and 8 1st-Team All-Pros, not counting Peyton. One of the players is in the HoF, one is a finalist this year, and four total players will be in the HoF someday. You're clearly wrong here, Durst.

 

Here are his weapons and their accolades only through their time with Peyton.

 

Peyton Manning career with Colts: 1998-2010, 13 Seasons

 

WR:

-Marvin Harrison ('98-'10, 11 Seasons, 8 Pro Bowls, 3 1st-Team All-Pro, 1st Round)

-Reggie Wayne ('01-'10, 10 Seasons, 5 Pro Bowls, 1 1st-Team All-Pro, 1st Round)

-Pierre Garcon ('08-'10, 3 Seasons, 6th Round)

 

RB:

-Marshall Faulk ('98, 1 Season, 1 Pro Bowl, 1st Round)

-Edgerrin James ('99-'05, 7 Seasons, 4 Pro Bowls, 1 1st-Team All-Pro, 1st Round)

-Joseph Addai ('06-'10, 5 Seasons, 1 Pro Bowl, 1st Round)

 

TE:

-Ken Digler ('98-'01, 4 Seasons, 1 Pro Bowl, 2nd Round)

-Dallas Clark ('03-'10, 8 Seasons, 1 Pro Bowl, 1 1st-Team All-Pro, 1st Round)

 

LT:

-Tarik Glenn ('98-'06, 9 Seasons, 3 Pro Bowls, 1st Round)

-Tony Ugoh ('07-'09, 3 Seasons, 2nd Round)

-Charlie Johnson ('10, 1 Season, 6th Round)

 

C:

-Jeff Saturday ('99-'10, 12 Seasons, 5 Pro Bowls, 2 1st-Team All-Pro)

 

RT:

- Ryan Diem ('01-'10, 10 Seasons, 4th Round)

Edited January 15, 2014 by Zack_of_Steel

[theMileHighGuy 656]

And obviously it's not in the conversation at all that Manning himself is why some of those guys were so good? Other than Vasquez who has been a standout this year, Denver is playing with a backup LT who is terrible, an average LG, a backup guard at center, and a RT who is better known for run blocking. Yet we're regarded as having one of the better o-lines in the league. It's not at all because Manning gets these guys in position, calls out their protections, and gets rid of the ball incredibly quickly though, is it? Yeah didn't think so.

 

These young weapons of ours have become men under Manning. From the meeting room, to practice, to gametime, his hand is in everything our offense does.

 

Every great quarterback has had above-average weapons, except for maybe Tom Brady who has been compensated with possibly the greatest coach who has ever lived. Speaking of, that's something else Manning has never had.

Edited January 16, 2014 by theMileHighGuy

[blotsfan 2,112]

I think the fact that he carried Jim Caldwell to a super bowl is proof that the "Peyton cant do anything in the playoffs" thing is overrated.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

 

"Thanks for carrying me to a Super Bowl, Peyton... But thank you even more for losing me a Super Bowl"

[BwareDWare94 723]

As long as Peyton retires at the end of the year, I'm going to be fucking happy. I hope it doesn't come about because of his neck, but he just needs to fucking go. I'm so sick of hearing about Peyton Manning on sports shows that I just want his career to fucking end.

 

The best thing that could happen to football is for us to only ever see Peyton Manning in Papa John's commercials.

[theMileHighGuy 656]

As long as Peyton retires at the end of the year, I'm going to be fucking happy. I hope it doesn't come about because of his neck, but he just needs to fucking go. I'm so sick of hearing about Peyton Manning on sports shows that I just want his career to fucking end.

 

The best thing that could happen to football is for us to only ever see Peyton Manning in Papa John's commercials.

 

Maybe turn to an amish lifestyle, cus he's definitely playing next year, win or lose, and it wouldn't surprise me if he comes back for another at 39.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

 

As long as Peyton retires at the end of the year, I'm going to be fucking happy. I hope it doesn't come about because of his neck, but he just needs to fucking go. I'm so sick of hearing about Peyton Manning on sports shows that I just want his career to fucking end.

 

The best thing that could happen to football is for us to only ever see Peyton Manning in Papa John's commercials.

 

Maybe turn to an amish lifestyle, cus he's definitely playing next year, win or lose, and it wouldn't surprise me if he comes back for another at 39.

 

 

North Dakota basically is a form of Amish lifestyle, so it looks like Bware is shit out of luck.

[BC 331]

Peyton Manning is the greatest QB of all time regardless if they win another superbowl or not.

 

Now watch this thread turn into an All-State Mayhem commercial.

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

[Mentch 42]

Peyton Manning is the greatest QB of all time regardless if they win another superbowl or not.

 

Now watch this thread turn into an All-State Mayhem commercial.

 

This may sound weird, but I actually dont disagree with you on this one

[BigBen07 285]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10303066/peyton-manning-denver-broncos-most-respected-nfl-espn-survey

 

Don't shoot the messenger.

Edited January 17, 2014 by BigBen07

[Turry 755]

And obviously it's not in the conversation at all that Manning himself is why some of those guys were so good? Other than Vasquez who has been a standout this year, Denver is playing with a backup LT who is terrible, an average LG, a backup guard at center, and a RT who is better known for run blocking. Yet we're regarded as having one of the better o-lines in the league. It's not at all because Manning gets these guys in position, calls out their protections, and gets rid of the ball incredibly quickly though, is it? Yeah didn't think so.

 

These young weapons of ours have become men under Manning. From the meeting room, to practice, to gametime, his hand is in everything our offense does.

 

Every great quarterback has had above-average weapons, except for maybe Tom Brady who has been compensated with possibly the greatest coach who has ever lived. Speaking of, that's something else Manning has never had.

Didn't Manning have Tom Moore for like 10 years ?

[theMileHighGuy 656]

 

And obviously it's not in the conversation at all that Manning himself is why some of those guys were so good? Other than Vasquez who has been a standout this year, Denver is playing with a backup LT who is terrible, an average LG, a backup guard at center, and a RT who is better known for run blocking. Yet we're regarded as having one of the better o-lines in the league. It's not at all because Manning gets these guys in position, calls out their protections, and gets rid of the ball incredibly quickly though, is it? Yeah didn't think so.

 

These young weapons of ours have become men under Manning. From the meeting room, to practice, to gametime, his hand is in everything our offense does.

 

Every great quarterback has had above-average weapons, except for maybe Tom Brady who has been compensated with possibly the greatest coach who has ever lived. Speaking of, that's something else Manning has never had.

Didn't Manning have Tom Moore for like 10 years ?

 

 

Moore was a great offensive coordinator, but I wouldn't put him in the same class as a Bill Walsh, Lombardi, Shula, or Belichick.

[Turry 755]

Still helps a ton when you have the same OC since the day you were drafted then ten years onwards.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Peyton Manning is the greatest QB of all time regardless if they win another superbowl or not.

 

Now watch this thread turn into an All-State Mayhem commercial.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Moore was a great offensive coordinator, but I wouldn't put him in the same class as a Bill Walsh, Lombardi, Shula, or Belichick.

Yeah, because all of those guys are OCs, lol. And Manning had Moore for his entire tenure with the Colts.

 

 

 

Oh, and I missed the ludicrous notion earlier that Joe Montana was only great because "nobody had seen the West Coast Offense before". Learn NFL history before you spew homerish nonsense to aggrandize your (for two seasons now, lol) QB.

 

Paul Brown invented the WCO and had Otto Graham slinging TDs when Walsh was still in high school. Paul Brown and Sid Gillman began the WCO in the '30s at tOSU and then refined it in the NFL. Walsh learned everything he knew from the pair and has himself stated that the rightful name would be the "Cincinnati Offense", as he was an assistant under Gillman at the University of Cincinnati and then under Brown with the Bengals.

 

And if you're really going to go that route, Manning played for most of his career under Tony Dungy and now under John Fox, both of whom are members of the Paul Brown coaching tree.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Zack_of_Steel

[RazorStar 4,025]

Can't you trace nearly everyone's coaching roots to Paul Brown at this point though? Not saying that's a bad thing, just that his coaching tree and impact on the game is that prevalent. The WCO has been around for a long time, the reason we associate Joe Cool with it is because he was the master of the offense. It has never been run so smoothly before or after Montana's time.

 

The point I'm getting at hre is that Peyton is like dog turds in a colander compared to the best the game has ever seen, and his career is basically cemented as such. Even if he goes out on top, Tom Brady will always be better, Joe Montana, and Bart Starr will always be better, but he can finally slide into the top 10 at least.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Can't you trace nearly everyone's coaching roots to Paul Brown at this point though? Not saying that's a bad thing, just that his coaching tree and impact on the game is that prevalent. The WCO has been around for a long time, the reason we associate Joe Cool with it is because he was the master of the offense. It has never been run so smoothly before or after Montana's time.

 

The point I'm getting at hre is that Peyton is like dog turds in a colander compared to the best the game has ever seen, and his career is basically cemented as such. Even if he goes out on top, Tom Brady will always be better, Joe Montana, and Bart Starr will always be better, but he can finally slide into the top 10 at least.

The reason I brought it up, with italics thrown in, was to poke fun at MHG's lame logic by inserting some of my own. The rest of your post is spot-on. I had Peyton at #14 All-Time and if he wins a ring by his own merit, he'll definitely climb the list.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Zack_of_Steel

[seanbrock 1,684]

I'm loving this thread. All this Peyton hate actually brings a smile to my face. As I sit here typing this I'm 100% confident that this is probably the only forum where I truly belong lol.

 

Oh and while it is hatred, it is factually based hatred, so all you little Peyton nughuggers can shut the fuck up.

Edited January 19, 2014 by seanbrock

[Vin+ 3,121]

http://captaincomeback.wordpress.com/2014/01/19/nfl-conference-championship-predictions-manning-is-better-than-brady-but-so-what-edition/

[Sarge+ 3,436]

in b4 Vin gets flamed to hell and back for violating one of the 2 most prominent TGP rules: Under no circumstances is anyone allowed to say anything good about Peyton Manning, even if they have stats and evidence to back up Peyton not being as bad in the playoffs as people think.

[Thanatos 2,847]

http://captaincomeback.wordpress.com/2014/01/19/nfl-conference-championship-predictions-manning-is-better-than-brady-but-so-what-edition/

A very interesting read, indeed.

[BJORN 679]

 

Can't you trace nearly everyone's coaching roots to Paul Brown at this point though? Not saying that's a bad thing, just that his coaching tree and impact on the game is that prevalent. The WCO has been around for a long time, the reason we associate Joe Cool with it is because he was the master of the offense. It has never been run so smoothly before or after Montana's time.

 

The point I'm getting at hre is that Peyton is like dog turds in a colander compared to the best the game has ever seen, and his career is basically cemented as such. Even if he goes out on top, Tom Brady will always be better, Joe Montana, and Bart Starr will always be better, but he can finally slide into the top 10 at least.

The reason I brought it up, with italics thrown in, was to poke fun at MHG's lame logic by inserting some of my own. The rest of your post is spot-on. I had Peyton at #14 All-Time and if he wins a ring by his own merit, he'll definitely climb the list.

 

[Beastquake 0]

Once again Brady will prove he is the better QB and best a Manning lead team.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I was actually very sad at that article. It really answers nothing in regards to Manning's historical placement, but rather his rivalry with Brady. The best chart, IMO is (IIRC) the first one with all the stats. Stats are pretty close.. In everything but victories.

A couple charts down, it is interesting to see the by how much Tom and Manning lose by. Yes, Brady tends to get blown out, relatively speaking... But Manning is losing the close games. Why is it being construed as a positive that Manning is losing, but losing in clutch time situations? If anything, I think that may be more damning. lol

 

The fact that win probability added is so close is a bit surprising being that all Peyton does is lose in the postseason and all Brady does is win. I'd be interested to see how that stat is accounted for, if anyone knows.

 

The lengths of touchdowns, I don't find to be all that relevant. What does that mean.. That Peyton's offenses don't utilize the dink and dunk as much? Or that the Patriots usually dink/dunk/and run extremely well in the postseason, hence setting up those short TDs. I don't think the fact that Hoodie runs an efficient offense with a good running game to set up TDs should necessarily hurt Brady.

 

The fact that Peyton loves throwing the ball, and tries hitting those big plays though... Is that a great thing? He has to work harder for the TDs he throws, which can be seen as both good and bad, can it not? It's good because you obviously have that big play potential... But He tries shouldering too much of the load, like he is actually capable of carrying his team and how many of those deep throws aren't actually going for scores? How many of those aren't being completed at all?

 

If you are taking more deep shots, there is a lot of risk to go with the reward -- and the article doesn't really care to go into those depths. He is basically saying "Brady throws for shorter TD passes, thus he is inferior" and that really isn't accurate.

 

The stats regarding how the QBs play in 4th qtr are interesting, but it's more showing that Brady isn't as good as people think.. Not that Peyton is actually better.

 

It was a decent article with lots of solid information.. but in the end, it's a self-admitted Peyton apologist trying to prove that Brady is inferior. I don't think the article clearly projects Manning as the better playoff QB, even though it may be closer than you would expect... minus the winning and super bowls.

And I was really disappointed that the article just went after Brady. As Razor and Zack mentioned here, they don't even have Peyton in the Top 10 of QBs... So even if you take the article completely at it's biased face value you still have 9-13+ QBs ahead of Manning according to a few posters here.

Again, while the article has some nice tidbits, I think it is too small of a scope and really doesn't add anything to the current discussion. If this were a Brady/Manning thread -- it would be more appropriate.