SEC Sack Leader Michael Sam Could Be NFL's First Openly Gay Player

[oochymp 2,393]

Obviously that is coming from someone with very little insider knowledge of the league.

I think if any of actually had significant insider knowledge of the league we probably wouldn't be on this forum

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Ha, proves how little you know!

I am actually Ted Thompson. I enjoy being here because I wait for TGP's annual mega mock draft each year with enthusiasm. Any players SeanBrock takes are immediately withdrawn from the Packers big board.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Favre4Ever

[Sarge+ 3,436]

^ Lost my shit laughing at that.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

After former Missouri defensive end Michael Sam announced he was gay on Sunday, one of the more interesting reactions came from Sam's father, Michael Sam Sr. In an interview with the New York Times just after Michael Jr.'s announcement, the elder Sam said he didn't want his 'grandkids raised in that kind of environment.'

The Times also quoted Sam Sr. as saying he's an 'old school... man-and-a-woman type of guy.'

Now the elder Sam is claiming he didn't say some of the stuff that the Times has quoted him as saying. In an interview with the Galveston County (Texas) Daily News on Wednesday, Sam Sr. says that he was 'terribly misquoted' and that the New York Times also took him out of context.

Specifically, Sam Sr. denies that he told the Times he's a 'man-and-a-woman type of guy.' The elder Sam also denies that he said he didn't want his 'grandkids raised in that kind of environment.'

"I did not say anything about my grandkids," Sam Sr. said on Wednesday. The Sam family is from Hitchcock, Texas, a small town just outside of Galveston.

The New York Times piece also quotes Sam Sr. as saying that NFL Hall of Famer Deacon Jones is probably 'turning over in his grave' because of the younger Sam's announcement. The Times article made that quote come across as somewhat negative, even saying that Sam Sr. grumbled the quote. However, the elder Sam says that quote was meant to be positive.

"I told them that Deacon Jones is going to roll over in his grave because here comes my son and that's he's going to be a star in the NFL," Sam Sr. said.

In Wednesday's interview with the Daily News, the elder Sam came out in full support of his son. "My son did the right thing, and I am not against him at all. He has made a great statement in coming out, and that he should be able to play in the NFL. I love him unconditionally," Sam Sr. said. "Once he gets on the field and hits (someone) once, they won't think he's gay."

Despite the allegations made by Sam Sr., New York Times sports editor Jason Stallman sent an email to the Daily News saying the Times stands by its story. "We generally are not inclined to discuss the details of our reporting, but I can assure you that we quoted Mr. Sam accurately and fairly," Stallman wrote. "I've gone over it with our reporters, and everything was rock solid, beyond any doubt."

 

 

CBS

 

Those conflicting stories.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Favre4Ever

[KempBolt 498]

 

 

The stupid analogy of putting different genders together by you and Durst is just ridiculous...I think a better analogy would be a lesbian in a female shower. Or when we finally broke racial barriers in this country. There was a point in history where it made people uncomfortable to even be in the same diner as a black man or family... Did we get over that hump by continuing on with our disgruntled and archaic ideals ? Nope. Vilma and people like him are the ones who have to change, not the other way around. That's how you progress as a society.

And the bolded is completely and outrageously incorrect. I don't like Vilma as a player or person, that's why he is an asshole. Not because of his fear that Michael Sam will rape him.

My mistake on Vilma then. But I wasn't just saying you were applying the label to him.

You can't make everyone happy, and it will be a frozen day in hell before we start turning the cogs back on he advancements we have made in discrimination and the like to cater to the assholes (like Vilma) in the world

. Sure seemed like that's what you were saying.

 

However, he isn't concerned with Sam raping him, much less in front of other players, and you know that. Extreme hyperbole helps no one here.

 

I simply don't see this issue being the same as having black/white in the same shower at all. Sure, a gross oversimplification could be "White guys were once uncomfortable to be around black guys while taking a shower, and now straight guys are uncomfortable around gay guys taking a shower with them, ergo same situation and they should just deal with it."

 

I really don't see how the same gender makes a lick of difference. What's the reason for not having men and women in the same shower? Is it not something to do with sexuality?

Yes, it is. That's just common sense to those of us with irrational minds I suppose. It seems like players should have the option to have privacy the same way women have privacy from men when they're showering, changing, etc. 99% of the time, it would be a non-issue (just as it likely would be in a co-ed lockerroom), but if you put people in that situation, over a period of time, something is going to happen.

 

And before anyone starts twisting my words to mean that I think homosexuals are just a bunch of sex-crazed deviants, understand that I'm talking about all people. Hetero and homosexuals-- if you put them in a position where they are naked behind closed doors with people of a gender they are attracted to for long enough, incidents are going to occur. Which is why people should have the right to privacy, if they desire it, in those situations from people that are sexually attracted to them.

 

I used to work at an In-N-Out with both gay and straight co-workers. I didn't have any issue changing out in the lockerrooms, but in one instance I did witness one of my straight friends get molested by a gay co-worker who claimed to just be messing around. That guy was obviously the exception, not the rule. But shouldn't my friend have had the right not to be in that position? Or are we not to concern ourselves with his rights?

[RazorStar 4,025]

Most people are generally uncomfortable in a shower with other people because they're self conscious about their bodies. <_>

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

 

Yes, it is. That's just common sense to those of us with irrational minds I suppose. It seems like players should have the option to have privacy the same way women have privacy from men when they're showering, changing, etc. 99% of the time, it would be a non-issue (just as it likely would be in a co-ed lockerroom), but if you put people in that situation, over a period of time, something is going to happen.

 

And before anyone starts twisting my words to mean that I think homosexuals are just a bunch of sex-crazed deviants, understand that I'm talking about all people. Hetero and homosexuals-- if you put them in a position where they are naked behind closed doors with people of a gender they are attracted to for long enough, incidents are going to occur. Which is why people should have the right to privacy, if they desire it, in those situations from people that are sexually attracted to them.

 

I used to work at an In-N-Out with both gay and straight co-workers. I didn't have any issue changing out in the lockerrooms, but in one instance I did witness one of my straight friends get molested by a gay co-worker who claimed to just be messing around. That guy was obviously the exception, not the rule. But shouldn't my friend have had the right not to be in that position? Or are we not to concern ourselves with his rights?

 

 

You said it yourself, you aren't really talking about the NFL anymore specifically alone, but just in general. You're also going beyond just the lines between showering / changing with gay people but all people. Not a bad thing, mind you.... But it's a subtle change in topic from the previously ridiculous hypothetical outlined by members.

 

I am not sure how practical it is to give every single player in an NFL locker room privacy, but at least you recognize that is the issue and why we segregate bathrooms to begin with and not because of our sexualities like previous members tried and failed to argue.

 

As the Miami Dolphins have proven, you don't need gay teammates in order to be molested.. You raise a fair point about the general privacy of players. And unlike others here, you aren't just trying to blur the lines between the emotions and experiences of straight people alone. I am not totally against giving players more of a sense of privacy, in general, while changing and or showering...

 

However...

 

In an NFL setting, how do you go about changing this though? When you have 40-80 players all working together and in need of a bathing at the same time.. How do you deliver on the privacy of each individual comfortably? Is that really practical? In a more public setting where those facilities are for a more limited staff (like your personal experience), how do you solve that issue? Have one or two facilities and just expect employees to take longer because they have to wait in lines and take turns... Do you make them come in early in order to do that all off the clock and make employees take that time off the clock in order to get ready and prepared to be on the clock? Or maybe soemthing else completely?

 

Like I said, I am definitely not against the general idea of more privacy across the board. I respect your ability to make that distinction for all peoples and not just those that identify themselves as straight. Even with your personal experience that you shared, you remain diligent and steadfastly concerned about all parties we are discussing here. I think it would be very easy for you to have come in here and blasted and generalized the gay community because of what you have seen and or witnessed in a workplace atmosphere. But you didn't do that... You aren't looking out only for those that identify themselves as straight and I both appreciate and respect that greatly.

 

But again, I think it's a problem without a practical solution at this time. Or one I am just not thinking of currently. Do you have an idea or ideas that would be able to achieve your goals both in an NFL setting and in a more public one?

Edited February 17, 2014 by Favre4Ever

[KempBolt 498]

I don't really have any answers as to how you go about it. And I think anything you do will be impractical to a certain point. Personally I don't think you have to change anything necessarily. Just give people the right to ask for some sort of special arrangement if they desire it. Then you aren't trying to overhaul everything about the locker room if you don't have to, but you're also not forcing guys into a situation. My guess is that the vast majority of guys would leave well enough alone, but just feel better for having had their sensibilities and privacy considered and knowing they have options if they want to take advantage of them.

[BucD+ 648]

Poll of players suggests most are OK with a gay teammate

Posted by Michael David Smith on February 17, 2014, 10:41 AM EST

 

A new poll of NFL players suggests that most would have no problem sharing a locker room with Michael Sam or any other gay player.

 

The poll, conducted by ESPN, asked 51 NFL players if a player’s sexual orientation matters. Only seven of them, or 14 percent, said yes, while 44 of them, or 86 percent, said no.

One participant in the poll, described as a starting wide receiver, said openness would is the key to Sam being treated well in an NFL locker room.

“Whoever takes [sam in the draft] should have an open talk at the beginning of camp, where everybody can ask what he’s comfortable with, what offends him, what boundaries there should be,” the player said. “When it comes to race, people already know the boundaries, to a certain extent. But I don’t think football players are overly familiar with what can and can’t be said around a gay person.”

That points to one problem the NFL still has: The majority of players also said that they had teammates and coaches who used homophobic slurs in the past season. Which means that while most players would be comfortable with a gay teammate, it doesn’t necessarily follow that gay players would be made to feel welcomed.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/17/poll-of-players-suggests-most-are-ok-with-a-gay-teammate/

 

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

 

/thread

[Thanatos 2,847]

I disagree, ATL.

 

There will come a time when its not a big story, and that will be a good thing. But right now, it rightfully is a big story because he is most likely going to be the first (openly) gay player in the NFL. It's a celebration thing- we're finally to the point where we can have something like this, go us!

 

Eventually it will be "This happens all the time, no need to point it out or make a big deal out of it." That is not yet the case, however.

What will be most interesting is when we get to the point that there are NFL players dating each other or even married.

 

Married on opposite teams facing off in the Super Bowl. "YOU ARE SO SLEEPING ON THE COUCH TONIGHT."

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

ATL, is that how you feel about Ernie Davis, Bill Willis, Marion Motley, Jackie Robinson, et cetera?

Edited February 18, 2014 by Zack_of_Steel

[Cherry 1,302]

 

/thread

Quoting for emphasis.

[Bucman 891]

I just hope he doesn't stare at my penis that would make things weird.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Quoting for emphasis.

Maybe you should quote the two posts prior that speak in opposition of that image.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

 

Quoting for emphasis.

Maybe you should quote the two posts prior that speak in opposition of that image.

 

 

In addition to emphasizing a rather stupid thing to say, it's also the wrong way to use the "confession bear" meme. All around fail, ATL & Chernobyl.

 

To add to what Zack said, this deserves attention. Frankly, it kind of reminds me of Facebook posts where white people quote Bill Cosby as saying "if you want to end racism, stop talking about race." White people eat that up. But the quote is total bullshit. Stop talking about it? Since when has silence solved anything? Seriously. If anything, silence perpetuates inequality. Talking about something, forcing the issue, pushing it into public discourse is how we incite change. It creates awareness. This IS a HUGE story, and it deserves all the media attention it's garnering. Zack is right, and I like the equation to Jackie Robinson, even if the comparison was only drawn because ATL is black (this is an assumption on my part, anyway). Michael Sam coming out is a big deal and we shouldn't dismiss him. And until players don't have to come out to the media anymore due to the elimination of any social stigma surrounding homosexuality, THEN we should stop making a big deal about it.

 

Anyway, I'll step off my soap box now.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Phailadelphia

[Thanatos 2,847]

Bill Cosby's whole speech which that quote is taken from is incredible, though. In essence, he is telling the black community that they need to stop acting like victims, regardless of whether or not they are, and push forward and take advantage of any opportunities they can.

 

That two sentence paraphrase doesn't come close to doing it justice.

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

Indeed. Zack makes great points and I agree with him.

 

It's not that I hate Michael Sam, or the gays...but the media surrounding all this is rather ridiculous. It's a frustration with the media.

 

I don't watch ESPN other than for televised games..and the most part I get most of my news and sports news/media from the internet. The issue is pivotal, and needs to be addressed.

 

There are going to be people on his NFL team no matter where Sam goes that will treat him like he should be..like everyone else...and there will be the idiots of the team that will treat him like shit.

 

Kudos for him to coming out, but the only way progress will be made is not by just his voice, but by actually doing the deed of playing for an NFL team. I'm just sick of beating the dead horse of will the NFL accept a gay player by the media.

 

It was the same way for all the black players in professional sports before. Everyone knew they were black, and people embraced them on their team and others didn't..and now look at what we have today.

 

I think the similar things will happen with gays...except due to the fact that there aren't as many football playing gays as there are black football players lol.

 

Breaking a barrier isn't done with just a voice..it's the actions that go along with it.

[Vin+ 3,121]

I can't wait for the backlash aimed at the NFL if Sam goes undrafted.

 

 

NFL.com's Daniel Jeremiah believes Missouri DE Michael Sam could go undrafted.

Jeremiah is a former NFL scout. "The number everybody keeps talking about is the 25.5 inch vertical," Jeremiah said of Sam's Combine performance. "That shows you a lack of explosiveness, which is going to scare a lot of people off. ... He needs to jump better than that at his Pro Day or I think it's a real chance, you're talking about (a) seventh-round pick, possibly even going undrafted." The tough road Sam is facing as the NFL's first openly gay player will get even tougher if he doesn't improve some of his measurables at his Pro Day.

Source: NFL.com

 

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Vertical jump = lack of explosion off the line of scrimmage?

I am no pro scout, but I don't exactly get the connection.

[blotsfan 2,112]

Harder to swat balls (hah hah) if you can't jump that high.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

When Dlineman and pass rushers swat balls down, it usually isn't much higher than their own head... Take his vertical, plus height and he can reach up over 8 feet. Don't think it's going to be much of a problem, in that regard.

 

Not saying Sam doesn't have weaknesses... but coming to the conclusion that he lacks explosion because his vertical was poor isn't something I am willing to accept.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Favre4Ever

[Vin+ 3,121]

He also ran a 4.91, so there's that too.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Because 40 yard dash times are a great indication of game speed.. It's pretty common that pass rushers run 40 yards in a straight line before sacking the QB, right?

[RazorStar 4,025]

All that matters is game speed, and that's measured by knowledge of the playbook. If the guy is smart enough, he'll find a spot on a team.