CeeGee 0 Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) @bware - "the Giants were the best team this year" ? Really? Were you saying this when they were 7-7? You know the Giants had the worst rushing Offense this year right? Funny how getting hot for the last few weeks changes people's mind about things... Tom Coughin was about to be fired midseason... Do you remember that lol... I wouldn't even put this Giants team in the Top 10 of NFL Teams this Season... They simply got hot at the right time. Also, I agree with you on the rest of your post... We're all too quick to crown ONE Player as "ELITE" despite the fact that its a TEAM Game... Without the rest of this team, playing like they Played, Eli wouldn't have sniffed his 2nd Super Bowl... Its not all him... Edited February 6, 2012 by CeeGee Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CeeGee 0 Posted February 6, 2012 Also, its amazing to me how quickly people forget how great Peyton Manning is... Think about this... With Peyton Manning, the Colts have won 10 games for what? 10 years in a row? Without him, with the Exact Same Roster in place, they are the Worst team in Football? Peyton should win MVP Every Single year... This year proved how great he truly is... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seanbrock 1,684 Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) If Eli isn't in your top 5 you should have your head examined. I still like Rodgers, Big Ben, and Brees a little more though. I put him at 4 personally with Brady at 5. Also, its amazing to me how quickly people forget how great Peyton Manning is... Think about this... With Peyton Manning, the Colts have won 10 games for what? 10 years in a row? Without him, with the Exact Same Roster in place, they are the Worst team in Football? Peyton should win MVP Every Single year... This year proved how great he truly is... I think you forget just how good some of those Colts teams were and just how much his defense carried him to his one and only Super Bowl. I think Peyton has the record for most one and done playoff appearences. Not a great record to have. Also to comment on the Brady talk, I'm not so much focused on the Spy Gate issue as much as I am the fact that maybe Tom Brady was bailed out by his defense in the 3 Super Bowls he won. Big Ben, Eli, Rodgers,Brees, they can drive for a TD to win a Super Bowl. Brady has to settle for a FG. Edited February 6, 2012 by seanbrock Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BucD+ 648 Posted February 6, 2012 He IS MOST DEFINITELY top 5 in the NFL. As I said last night in the shoutbox...this is the NFL...the best of the best...if you're top 5 at your position you're elite. You can't get any better than the NFL. Eli is a top 5 QB. Therefore, Eli is elite. My top five would include...Rodgers, Eli, Breesus, Big Ben, Brady...in no particular order... I have not decided on what order it would be for me yet...(apparent by my "+'s" of peoples top 5)...but they include the same people. Although, how Razor can put Rivers over Eli is beyond me, but I suppose that's his opinion. A wrong one, but his... lol But you're bat shit crazy, IMO, if you think Eli isn't a top 5 QB and this season just solidified that he is. Zack's, "Intangibles, clutch performance > Stats." is dead on and Sarge's, "He just had one of, if not the greatest clutch seasons in NFL history..." is too...same with what F4E said in his initial post... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KiLaSix9+ 398 Posted February 6, 2012 Was anyone saying Eli was Top 5 when the Giants were 7-7? Yeah, he is clutch, I'll give him that... I don't consider him ELITE despite having 2 Super Bowls... I may be wrong... What do I know lol... I would still take Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, Brees over Eli Of course not. He forged his elite status with this years run in the playoffs and SB. I too, now consider him top 5. If were in the playoffs, he then moves into the top 3 list in my book based on how clutch he is. Dude has ice in his veins. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CeeGee 0 Posted February 6, 2012 ELITE Quarterbacks don't go 9-7... Simply amazing that people leave Peyton Manning out of this discussion... Utterly mind boggling... Eli has 2 good SB Runs, and now he's a Top 5 QB? You guys are drinking the Cool-Aide 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYGIANTSFLYHIGH 1 Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) ELITE Quarterbacks don't go 9-7... Simply amazing that people leave Peyton Manning out of this discussion... Utterly mind boggling... Eli has 2 good SB Runs, and now he's a Top 5 QB? You guys are drinking the Cool-Aide Elite QBs dont go 16-0 either. TEAMS do....The guy played with a depleted defense all season. Came back in the 4th quarter 7 times out of there 9 wins (Ties an NFL record) and threw 15 4th quarter TDs (Breaks his brother and JOHNNY UNITAS' RECORD). Than throws 9 TDs and 1 INT in the playoffs....Not too mention he threw for almost 5,000 yards this season...Doing it all with a 1st year WR in Cruz, and 3rd year WR in Nicks, a first year TE from the practice squad, a 4th year WR who missed 6 games in Manningham, Bradshaw missing 4 games, and a different offensive line almost every game until week 14... Sorry Newb but I think your in the minority on this one Edited February 6, 2012 by NYGIANTSFLYHIGH 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos 2,847 Posted February 6, 2012 We're leaving Peyton out of the discussion because there is extreme doubt he will be playing at an elite level when he comes back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glanvilles Grits 142 Posted February 6, 2012 My list will stop when I get to Eli: 1. Tom Brady 2. Drew Brees 3. Aaron Rodgers 4. Peyton Manning - If he can still perform 5. Ben Roethlisberger 6. Eli Manning That's how it is. Before this season I couldn't even put him in my top 10. Now, the defense get's a crap load of credit from me. I think it's important to consider that while it was "just one good year" as of right now, Eli was literally making all the throws that guys like Tom Brady, Drew Brees, etc. had been making. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glanvilles Grits 142 Posted February 6, 2012 Lol I really just got Negged for saying that Eli has been making all the great throws that the medias big time quarterbacks have been making. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SteVo+ 3,702 Posted February 6, 2012 I'm gonna second Zack's notion that Tom Brady is no longer elite, though not necessarily because of Spygate. You might think I'm crazy, but think about it: when's the last time Tom Brady was elite in the playoffs? At the very least it was 2006. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BwareDWare94 723 Posted February 6, 2012 I'm gonna second Zack's notion that Tom Brady is no longer elite, though not necessarily because of Spygate. You might think I'm crazy, but think about it: when's the last time Tom Brady was elite in the playoffs? At the very least it was 2006. Sorry but he's still elite. He got to the Super Bowl with Gronk and that's about it. Yeah, a bunch of other cats caught some balls and TDs, but everybody besides Gronk is mediocre at best (with the exception of Hernandez). Also, I'm not discounting Wes Welker, but he's not nearly as dangerous as he used to be, IMO. Good teams can defend him now. Brady got to the Super Bowl and almost won it with his only great weapon on the shelf. C'mon. The guy's still elite. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SteVo+ 3,702 Posted February 6, 2012 Sorry but he's still elite. He got to the Super Bowl with Gronk and that's about it. Yeah, a bunch of other cats caught some balls and TDs, but everybody besides Gronk is mediocre at best (with the exception of Hernandez). Also, I'm not discounting Wes Welker, but he's not nearly as dangerous as he used to be, IMO. Good teams can defend him now. Brady got to the Super Bowl and almost won it with his only great weapon on the shelf. C'mon. The guy's still elite. To be elite you have to be elite in the playoffs, and Brady hasn't wowed me in the playoffs in quite some time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241 Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) He's still with Rivers and Ben to me in the category right under elite. Rodgers and Brees are well above him, and I believe that Brady is as well. I would throw Peyton in there above Eli but nobody knows what's gonna happen with him. Edited February 6, 2012 by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
G-Men 8 Posted February 6, 2012 Tom Brady was probably 5th-7th best when he won his third superbowl, and cracked the top 3 when the Patriots became a gunslinging team well after their dynasty run. Eli is probably as good as Tom Brady was when he won his 2nd or 3rd superbowl. He's getting a little bit too much of the credit and had an excellent supporting cast. They each won it with teams that excel at defensive schemes and rushing the passer. They each were a huge part of winning all of the superbowls they have collectively won, but it's like I said in that other thread a few weeks back. The role of the quarterback in a team built to win championships is not as much to win the game as it is to not loose the game and play solid, mistake-free football. If you didn't consider Eli Manning near the top before this game, then he probably shouldn't be 3-4 slots higher than you had him just because of this win. I agree with your points but its only expected that Eli would get so much credit. If you can remember, In the midst of the Pats dynasty, Brady definitely wasn't as good as he is now but there was still massive Brady/Manning(Peyton) debate simply because Colts couldn't overcome the Pats in the Playoffs. Imo this Superbowl win should only vault Eli above Big Ben. Same amount of rings but Eli has been MVP twice to Ben's 0, and both are clutch but i think Eli is a litte more clutch than Ben. How I have the QB's ranked: 1st TIER(ELITE) 1.Peyton Manning - 1st major injury. I think he'll be back and be fine. Not many still have him #1 but no one has had to single-handedly carry a team for so long and he has done it and produced. Not a great post-season resume but has made the big dance twice and has his ring. And still can't overlook 4 MVP's 2.Tom Brady - Since all of those great defenders from the dynasty left he has been just average in the playoffs and 0-2 in Superbowls. Seemingly traded in the rings for reg season MVP awards. 3.Aaron Rodgers - Can do it on the ground and through the air. On the grass or in a dome in any stadium. Reg season MVP award and has a ring. Within a few seasons has already made people forget about the future HOF before him and thats impressive. 4.Drew Brees - Has the numbers and has the ring, and probably should have an MVP award. Only thing that worries you is him playing outside the comfort of the Superdome. 2nd TIER(FLAT-OUT WINNERS) 5.Eli Manning - Probably the most dangerous outside of the clear elite guys in the postseason. Playing on the road seems to have NO affect on his play. Has better improv skills to make things happen on broken plays than some of the elite guys i belive(Peyton, Brees) because those guys rely so much on execution. And his best trait, in terms of just being flat out clutch, i honesty would put Eli 1 or 2 easy. 6.Ben Roethlisberger - Like Eli he can be kinda inconsistent having his good days and bad days but he's a winner and he def has a good clutch gene. 3 Super Bowl appearances is impressive for any QB. 3rd TIER(PRO-BOWLERS YET TO MAKE ANY POSTSEASON NOISE) 7.Phillip Rivers 8.Tony Romo 9.Matt Schaub 10.Matt Stafford 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Piggly Wiggly 960 Posted February 6, 2012 I'm gonna second Zack's notion that Tom Brady is no longer elite, though not necessarily because of Spygate. You might think I'm crazy, but think about it: when's the last time Tom Brady was elite in the playoffs? At the very least it was 2006. A lot of people have referred to Peyton as being not only elite, but possibly the greatest QB of all time. Yet, he's always choked on his cock in the postseason. So, why the fuck does he get a pass? And FWIW, Brady was pretty damn good last night. If Wes Welker doesn't choke and drop that pass, the game is most likely over and everyone is debating whether Brady is better than Joe Montana. Funny, there really isn't much of a difference between winning and losing most of the time. Just how the media and fans overreact after the wins and losses. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
badgers 380 Posted February 6, 2012 I like how you split the people up ^ However I put Big Ben ahead of Eli in Tier 2 but other than that I agree with that post. And let's not forget that Brady is still a great QB. His team is just bad. Rodgers seems to be a consensus "elite" QB in this thread but he was knocked out of the playoffs right away this year. Brady made it to the Super Bowl with nearly as bad of a defense and less offensive weapons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SteVo+ 3,702 Posted February 6, 2012 A lot of people have referred to Peyton as being not only elite, but possibly the greatest QB of all time. Yet, he's always choked on his cock in the postseason. So, why the fuck does he get a pass? And FWIW, Brady was pretty damn good last night. If Wes Welker doesn't choke and drop that pass, the game is most likely over and everyone is debating whether Brady is better than Joe Montana. Funny, there really isn't much of a difference between winning and losing most of the time. Just how the media and fans overreact after the wins and losses. Who said anything about giving Peyton a pass? I've been one of the people who point out his postseason suckage more than anyone and do not consider him elite for the same reason. As for why Brady was good but not good enough last night: In two prior playoff games Tom Brady saw pressure on just 13 dropbacks, in Super Bowl XLVI he was pressured on 20 of his 43 drop backs and his QB rating plummeted from 122.0 with no pressure, including his two touchdowns, to 51.6 on plays where he was pressured. ...compared to... For the game Manning was 12-for-14 on passes under pressure picking up an NFL QB rating of 105.4 and gaining nearly three yards more per attempt when he was pressured. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Favre4Ever+ 4,476 Posted February 6, 2012 Who said anything about giving Peyton a pass? I've been one of the people who point out his postseason suckage more than anyone and do not consider him elite for the same reason. As for why Brady was good but not good enough last night: ...compared to... Brady has NEVER been good when you get pressure up the middle and don't allow him to step up. So you are going to need something else that you see in him as to why he was Elite before this game and couldn't play under pressure but is no longer elite after one game in which the Giants exposed a known weakness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barracuda 629 Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) Top 5 is a judgement call Top 10 should be common sense. My list currently: 1. Brady - I hate him, but you can't deny talent. I don't care what anyone says Tom Brady is still the best QB in the league right now. 2. Rodgers -Not trailing far behind 3. Ben - Almost kind of underrated when compared to other top tier QB's 4. Eli/Brees - This is where I'd put a healthy P.Manning so these guys take the spot 5. Eli/Brees/Rivers - Interchangeable. Edited February 6, 2012 by Barracuda Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maverick 791 Posted February 6, 2012 Strange... BucD, Vin and Co were calling me a dumbass for not labelling Eli as an elite quarterback last night in the shoutbox. Well go ahead and call half the board dumbasses as well. Go on, don't be shy... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241 Posted February 6, 2012 Everybody who has Eli as an elite QB is kinda a dumbass. Unless if there's room in the elite category for Rivers and Ben. And to the people who think Eli is better then Rivers just because Rivers had a down year this year. Stop it. Rivers has outperformed Eli in just about every category over the past couple of years, and it isn't even close in some categories. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Favre4Ever+ 4,476 Posted February 6, 2012 Everybody who has Eli as an elite QB is kinda a dumbass. Unless if there's room in the elite category for Rivers and Ben. And to the people who think Eli is better then Rivers just because Rivers had a down year this year. Stop it. Rivers has outperformed Eli in just about every category over the past couple of years, and it isn't even close in some categories. Playoff wins? Super Bowl Victories? Super Bowl MVPs? Who is to say Rivers doesn't play like this every year? Or that Eli doesn't play like this every year? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted February 6, 2012 Players are allowed to have a fluke year, Favre had an amazing 09 between shitty 06, decent 07, shitty 08 and shitty 2010. Rivers was the best regular season QB in the league for three seasons in a row prior to this year, where the only knock is his 20 INT's. Eli was hovering around 10th best QB last year because he couldn't play consistently. This is really the first season where he's played great all season long (except against the Redskins), and because he did the Giants won a championship. That doesn't mean you leapfrog a guy who is solidly 5th best... You get close, but that's it. Sure the post season means a lot more than the regular season, but a player only gets so many opportunities to be in the post season. None of the Chargers playoff losses can be put directly on Rivers' shoulders, and he's the best december QB in the league. If the Chargers were to win a super bowl next year (Please no) here's how the discussion would go. "Rivers is so much better than Eli durr." Because you can say that without doubt, you should be able to say Rivers and Eli are incredibly close right now. If Rivers does have another sub standard year, and Eli continues to play like he has been in September, October and January, then sure I can say Eli is better than Rivers. Right now, there's no way I can say that decisively. Let the super bowl mellow a while before you start proclaiming Eli, alright. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BucD+ 648 Posted February 6, 2012 Strange... BucD, Vin and Co were calling me a dumbass for not labelling Eli as an elite quarterback last night in the shoutbox. Well go ahead and call half the board dumbasses as well. Go on, don't be shy... Dumbasses. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
