'Icing the Kicker'

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

/PFT

Pete Carroll offers novel excuse for kicker-icing backfire

 

Posted by Mike Florio on January 14, 2013, 7:23 AM EST

 

Getty Images

Falcons kicker Matt Bryant Norwooded a 49-yard field goal attempt that came after a timeout was called at the end of Sunday’s NFC playoff thriller, and FOX cameras promptly showed an incredulous Seahawks coach Pete Carroll apparently arguing to an official that the Seahawks didn’t call the timeout.

 

Eventually, FOX showed a replay of Carroll calling the last second timeout.

 

And so it is that Carroll has become the latest coach to wait as late as possible to ice the kicker, and to have the kicker miss the kick. And make the Mulligan.

 

As it turns out, Carroll was upset not because he was trying to disavow the timeout after clearly calling it. Carroll said during his post-game press conference that he was miffed because he had been told before the game that, under those circumstances, the kicker would not be allowed to kick the ball.

 

It’s common for coaches to talk to officials before a game about things that will or may happen during the game. Most notably, Saints coach Sean Payton gave the crew a head’s up before Super Bowl XLIV that he was planning a surprise onside kick. Carroll explained that this oddly specific topic came up on Sunday because Ravens kicker Justin Tucker apparently finagled a practice kick between overtimes on Saturday night.

 

But what did Carroll expect the officials to do, physically block the Falcons from kicking the ball? Throw a flag for delay of game? Carroll admitted that the officials didn’t know what they would do if someone took the practice kick.

 

So why push it by pushing the timeout to the last possible second?

 

Carroll has been coaching long enough to know that it’s not unprecedented for teams to take late timeouts before critical field-goal attempts, and for the kicker to get a practice kick if the timeout comes too close to the snap. Plays routinely commence after a late timeout is called. Absent a clear statement from the league that the procedures are changing and that any team that snaps the ball after a timeout is called and, in the case of a field goal try, kicks the ball will be penalized, it’s unreasonable to think that the officials will do anything other than say to the coach who called the timeout, “You should have called it sooner.”

 

And that’s what Carroll should have done. Or, better yet, he shouldn’t have called it at all.

 

The truth remains that no coach is ever criticized for not icing the kicker. That’s the single best reason to never do it.

 

Before I rant... I just want to say that there were far too many variables in yesterday's game against Seattle for why they lost...and I totally disagree with 'icing' the kicker.

 

I don't know who started this, but whoever did is a moron. For many of the past seasons, there have been quite a few memorable times where a coach has call a TO at the LAST possible second, allowing for the kicker to essentially get a practice kick. What happened yesterday, is just karma for being a little bitch, because if there's no hypothesis that calling a TO messes with a kickers head, Matt Bryant misses, and more importantly, doesn't get a second shot.

 

Personally, for arguments sakes, the TO called before the kicker kicks...shouldn't be after both teams are lined up on the field. For if Peter calls that TO before our FG team is ready, Matt Bryant literally only gets one shot.

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

So, Carroll wanted to call the time out right as they snapped the ball and have the falcons get a penalty flag? Cheap?

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

Well first, Carroll is a backpedaling cunt when he said at first that he didn't call the TO yesterday as soon as Bryant missed that kick. For if that kick would've went in. Carroll would've been LIVID...and be demanding that he called TO before he got the kick off.

 

Secondly, I think this is one of those risk/reward type of situations. If you truly believe in this shit...then you better pay for the consequences when you don't do it right, which is what Peter did yesterday.

 

But asking for a flag because he can't call a TO fast enough is ridiculous. Refs can blow the whistles all they want, if the LS snaps it and the holder puts it down...that's a free shot.

 

It's a similar thing to the NBA where a guy gets fouled on the floor...but takes a shot for the sake of it anyway. Practice.

[AL_Royalty 489]

Icing the kicker is stupid, The kicker almost always gets the practice kick off. All it does is increase his chance of making the second kick. I think that when it was first done there might have been some advantage to it because no one saw it coming. To do it today though, when everyone expects it, is just a waste of everyone's time and usually does more harm than good for the team who calls the TO.

[blotsfan 2,112]

Icing the kicker is stupid and pointless. It has no effect and slows the game down. I don't think theres a fair way for the NFL to ban it but if they think of one, I'll praise them.

[Thanatos 2,847]

Well first, Carroll is a backpedaling cunt when he said at first that he didn't call the TO yesterday as soon as Bryant missed that kick. For if that kick would've went in. Carroll would've been LIVID...and be demanding that he called TO before he got the kick off.

 

Secondly, I think this is one of those risk/reward type of situations. If you truly believe in this shit...then you better pay for the consequences when you don't do it right, which is what Peter did yesterday.

 

But asking for a flag because he can't call a TO fast enough is ridiculous. Refs can blow the whistles all they want, if the LS snaps it and the holder puts it down...that's a free shot.

 

It's a similar thing to the NBA where a guy gets fouled on the floor...but takes a shot for the sake of it anyway. Practice.

 

Okay first off, Carroll was never arguing that he didn't call the timeout. That was the announcer being an idiot, it was apparent to anyone who watched Tucker get one off what he was mad about.

 

Secondly, he called the timeout well before the ball was snapped, and Bryant should not have been allowed to take a practice kick, as it is illegal. However, there is no penalty, so as Chris said, why listen to the refs? That will change in the offseason, I bet, they will probably make it a 5-yard delay of game penalty.

 

The refs were blowing the whistles way before the LS snapped the ball, and he did it anyway for practice- again, taking advantage of something that has no penalty.

 

Third, Bryant's practice kick is in no way a sure sign that he would have missed the actual kick. Many kickers when they have a practice shot, simply line up and kick it hard and straight without trying to angle it at all, just to see where the ball will go. There was nobody rushing him, no one on either team was doing anything, and there is no way to know that Bryant would have missed his kick. I personally don't think he would have at all, Bryant has been money for you guys. Having the ability to judge the elements as he did certainly helped, but he would not have kicked it the same way on the real attempt as he did on the practice shot.

 

Icing the kicker at all does nothing, really, unless its a rookie or a guy who has been shaky- like Akers or Crosby. Bryant was none of those things, and it was dumb to try to ice him in the first place. It was also dumb to let the Falcons get into FG range in two plays.

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

Okay first off, Carroll was never arguing that he didn't call the timeout. That was the announcer being an idiot, it was apparent to anyone who watched Tucker get one off what he was mad about.

 

Secondly, he called the timeout well before the ball was snapped, and Bryant should not have been allowed to take a practice kick, as it is illegal. However, there is no penalty, so as Chris said, why listen to the refs? That will change in the offseason, I bet, they will probably make it a 5-yard delay of game penalty.

 

The refs were blowing the whistles way before the LS snapped the ball, and he did it anyway for practice- again, taking advantage of something that has no penalty.

 

Third, Bryant's practice kick is in no way a sure sign that he would have missed the actual kick. Many kickers when they have a practice shot, simply line up and kick it hard and straight without trying to angle it at all, just to see where the ball will go. There was nobody rushing him, no one on either team was doing anything, and there is no way to know that Bryant would have missed his kick. I personally don't think he would have at all, Bryant has been money for you guys. Having the ability to judge the elements as he did certainly helped, but he would not have kicked it the same way on the real attempt as he did on the practice shot.

 

Icing the kicker at all does nothing, really, unless its a rookie or a guy who has been shaky- like Akers or Crosby. Bryant was none of those things, and it was dumb to try to ice him in the first place. It was also dumb to let the Falcons get into FG range in two plays.

I highly doubt Peter was arguing with the refs about the fact that he called a TO IMMEDIATELY when that kick was missed, they showed him as soon as it happened..and I didn't even here the announcers argue that. Either way, it's just a dumb thing to do when everyone KNOWS it's coming.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Julio4Ever

[Maverick 791]

It's illegal to commit the act, but there's no penalty if you commit the act? Makes sense.

 

[AL_Royalty 489]

Having the ability to judge the elements as he did certainly helped, but he would not have kicked it the same way on the real attempt as he did on the practice shot.

 

Icing the kicker at all does nothing, really, unless its a rookie or a guy who has been shaky- like Akers or Crosby. Bryant was none of those things, and it was dumb to try to ice him in the first place. It was also dumb to let the Falcons get into FG range in two plays.

I pretty much agreed with your post, but as far as the elements thing goes, they were in a dome, so

 

Also, yeah, giving up the field position after all they did to get the lead there was just disgraceful. Shame on the defense...

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Don't be a chump ass amateur and try to "ice" the kicker. Problem solved.

[OSUViking 505]

Don't let them get into position for a FG in the first place?

[56AceInDaPlace 110]

Don't let them get into position for a FG in the first place?

 

Easier said then done

[oochymp 2,393]

So, Carroll wanted to call the time out right as they snapped the ball and have the falcons get a penalty flag? Cheap?

it seems that's what this boils down to, and I think it'd be absurd if they made that a penalty, it happens way too often, and this one may have allowed enough time for the Falcons to stop the kick, but on a lot of them the kicker's almost to the ball by the time the refs get around to blowing the whistle (or by the time you could reasonably expect the kicking team to react to the whistle)

 

I also haven't seen anyone actually say where this is against the rules so I'd love to see where someone's cited that

[Thanatos 2,847]

I highly doubt Peter was arguing with the refs about the fact that he called a TO IMMEDIATELY when that kick was missed, they showed him as soon as it happened..and I didn't even here the announcers argue that. Either way, it's just a dumb thing to do when everyone KNOWS it's coming.

 

Why do you highly doubt this? He was over next to the ref, he called the timeout, clearly, the ref blew his whistle and ran in. Carroll had no reaction. Then Bryant kicked anyway, and Carroll is angry. 2+2=4.

 

Oochymp, I believe it was posted in another thread that Peirera said on his twitter account it was against the rules. I haven't seen the actual rule cited, either.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Thanatos19

[BradyFan81 404]

I equate it to giving Tiger Woods a practice tee shot or putt before the real one. Makes no fucking sense. Icing the kicker is dumb as hell.

Edited January 15, 2013 by BradyFan81

[RANGA+ 1,210]

Icing the kicker is stupid. And suck shit to Peter Carroll for fucking it up.

[rzb+ 367]

I can understand icing the kicker

 

 

..AT HOME! That's where your homefield advantage really comes into play. A detrimental part of the game where the fans can help get in the kicker's head. But to do it as the away team? Fucking stupid. The guy kicks field goals in that stadium all season.. his chances of making them there are way higher than anywhere else. He's already comfortable there so giving him more time around his fans and team (and a practice kick) only benefits him.

 

With all that said, there shouldn't be a penalty to the snapper who's doing his job of focusing on getting the ball to the holder. He shouldn't have to watch the ref waiting on a last minute timeout. The ref should get in there to stop it and if he doesn't, that's on him for not fulfilling his job.. not the football player. But then it goes to the coach.. call a timeout earlier so there's no room for excuses. The L stills stands for a L.

 

Pete Carroll is a douchebag. Karma bit him.. leave USC with sanctions, no Lombardi trophy.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

So, Carroll wanted to call the time out right as they snapped the ball and have the falcons get a penalty flag? Cheap?

 

This is exactly what it sounds like. When you call a timeout in the manner he did... You are waiting for the last possible second before the snap. When you do that, in all likelihood, the LS is going to snap the ball.. And kickers are taught to follow through and kick it, if it is indeed snapped.

 

The fact that Carroll had a conversation with the refs before the game about this tells me he knew EXACTLY what he was doing. And that was trying to use some kind of bullshit trick to force the Falcons into a penalty and into a tougher (longer) FG attempt.

 

That is really the only logical conclusion one can make...

 

And for that, I truly believe he is a piece of shit and I really hope the Seahawks go 0 - 16 next season.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

is it just me or is Peter about the most hated coach in the NFL.

[Bay 2,003]

is it just me or is Peter about the most hated coach in the NFL.

 

BB, Pete, Harbaugh. Take your pick. Maybe Jeff Fisher.

 

... Schiano, Schwartz are the main guys. Rex Ryan

 

EDIT: Forgot Big Mouth

Edited January 17, 2013 by Bay